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Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bo1024 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:23PM (#38122490)
Anyone know where to get good details? Specifically: do they know where the money went? If not, how did they prove intent (I assume they proved intent)?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by ncallaway on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:36PM (#38122648)
If you want a good summary of each day of trial: https://www.theverge.com/authors/elizabeth-lopatto and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHD5JP6xZcE&list=PLySrw1Nvf-...

If you want a really detailed overview of his testimony and cross-examination: https://www.youtube.com/@molly0xfff/streams

> do they know where the money went

Not all of it (at least, not for the trial). They showed significant components of it as part of the trial, but they don't need to show a super detailed breakdown of every single dollar as part of the trial, so I don't think we got that.

> If not, how did they prove intent (I assume they proved intent)?

Circumstantial evidence and witness testimony mostly. Including a cross-examination of Sam that thoroughly undermined his credibility.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bo1024 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:44PM (#38122758)
Thank you!
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bambax on Friday November 03, 2023 @07:02AM (#38126923)
Carly Reilly of Overpriced JPEGs also did a fantastic job of debriefing each day of the trial:

https://www.youtube.com/@overpricedjpegs

Extremely informative and fun to watch (if you can get past the "sponsor breaks" for NFT platforms and the like).

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by thr0waw4yz on Friday November 03, 2023 @10:14AM (#38129065)
Did he have the right to say nothing at all in the cross-examination?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by ncallaway on Friday November 03, 2023 @10:45AM (#38129603)
No.

As a defendant you have a right to not testify at all. You can decide not to take the stand. No one can request you take the stand, and the prosecution absolutely cannot make arguments about your decision not to take the stand in front of the jury.

But if you do take the stand, then the prosecution gets to ask you questions that you must answer (unless there’s a sustained objection about the specific question).

This is why so often defendants do not testify. Testifying on direct (when the defendant’s lawyer is the one asking questions) will almost always help the defendant. But the risks created by exposing oneself to cross examination are massive, so most choose not to take the stand.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by wmf on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:31PM (#38122597)
The FTX bankruptcy case is tracking down where all the money went. SBF's criminal trial was more concerned with proving a small number of crimes with overwhelming evidence.

There have been tons of articles, podcasts, videos, and tweets about the trial. Evidence was mostly chat logs of SBF ordering crimes and testimony from Caroline, Gary, and Nishad that he ordered them to do crimes.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by styles on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:42PM (#38123790)
The intent is that it was customer money. There is a fiduciary duty. They have separate custodial accounts for customer funds. They did not separate funds. It was clear as day.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by StressedDev on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:15PM (#38124017)
RE: Where the money went - The customer's money was used for the following purposes:

1. To pay for Alameda's (Sam Bankman Fried's hedge fund) and FTX's loses

2. Invest in venture capital and make acquisitions

3. Political donations

4. Charitable donations

5. Luxury real-estate, boats, etc.

6. "loans" (i.e. transfer of stolen funds) to FTX's top executives

RE: Intent - Intent was easy to prove. All of Sam Bankman-Fried's fellow executives testified against him. In addition, Sam Bankman-Fried gave several interviews after FTX's collapse where he basically admitted he lied, fucked up, etc. Also, there was a lot of documents proving Sam Bankman-Fried lied. A good example is him saying FTX was fine on Twitter (X) and then it collapsed a few days later.

Here are some good FTX resources:

https://newsletter.mollywhite.net/s/the-ftx-files - Molley White did a good job covering the trial.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-... - This site contains the government's indictment against Sam Bankman-Fried.

https://restructuring.ra.kroll.com/FTX/Home-Index - A lot of the FTX bankruptcy documents are on this website.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bo1024 on Friday November 03, 2023 @09:03AM (#38128084)
Thanks, this is really helpful!
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bmitc on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:45PM (#38124239)
Molly White had excellent writeups for the entire trial. She even did excellent multi-hour livestreams going over her notes for the portion of the trial where she was physically present at the courtroom.

https://newsletter.mollywhite.net/s/the-ftx-files

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Friday November 03, 2023 @12:31AM (#38124555)
Molly has done a poor job covering the cryptocurrency industry in general.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by simonw on Friday November 03, 2023 @12:57AM (#38124707)
You misspelt "excellent" there.

(Seriously, if you're going to claim that Molly White of all people did a bad job covering cryptocurrency you're going to need to bring receipts.)

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:22AM (#38125184)
Of course. First, she calls the industry, "a grift". I've been in deeply into crypto since 2012 and dismissing peer-to-peer digital cash nothing but a "scam" in 2023 ignores a decade of progress and hard work, not to mention an actual working product used by thousands of people a year. Everyone actually using Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum and Monero know that 99.999% of what is out there is a scam for morons.

Main exhibit would be her editorializing (not reporting) of the industry with her site, https://web3isgoinggreat.com/. Here she posts only negative articles or opinions cherry picked for highlight issues with crypto. Every "hack", every rug-pull, every scam token. In my opinion its a HUGE waste of time and not useful or interesting.

The website she should have built for Web3isGoingGreat.com would be VERY simple, just a like to the home pages for Bitcoin White Paper, then the Monero and Bitcoin Cash home pages. Thats all anyone needs to know about crypto, the rest is a scam.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bmitc on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:39AM (#38125278)
> just a like to the home pages for Bitcoin White Paper, then the Monero and Bitcoin Cash home pages. Thats all anyone needs to know about crypto, the rest is a scam.

Doesn't that mean that you actually agree with her stance and reporting?

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Monday November 06, 2023 @12:28AM (#38159198)
She focuses 100% on the scams which are the least interesting part of the industry but gets the most attention.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by simonw on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:37AM (#38125259)
If you think the rest is a scam, do you at least appreciate all of the articles she's written that help illustrate that point?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by jefftk on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:33AM (#38125239)
> the rest is a scam

Etherium is a scam?

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Friday November 03, 2023 @12:56PM (#38131532)
It's an unlicensed security at the very least. But yes, it's closer to a scam than a a useful currency.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by null0pointer on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:02AM (#38125786)
As someone who has been into crypto for a similar amount of time I can confirm that this analysis of the state of the crypto landscape is accurate.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by sgammon on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:28AM (#38125945)
you're saying crypto is going great? on SBF's conviction news?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by qeternity on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:58AM (#38126145)
> the rest is a scam.

Ok, and this is what she writes about.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by cianmm on Friday November 03, 2023 @06:47AM (#38126811)
I feel that if you agree that "99.999% of what is out there is a scam for morons" then it's pretty tough to argue that the industry isn't a grift.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by FireBeyond on Friday November 03, 2023 @07:16PM (#38136311)
He literally said this of Bitcoin yesterday:

> And still, 10 years in, a near perfect tract record, people are still unsure about Bitcoin. What's the issue exactly, people are just scared?

A near perfect track record? How?

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Monday November 06, 2023 @12:27AM (#38159191)
It might be too late for you to see this but "Bitcoin" is the project, BTC and BCH are two forks of the original project.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bambax on Friday November 03, 2023 @07:05AM (#38126954)
> I've been in deeply into crypto since 2012

I think one could have guessed that from your first comment ;-)

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by dontlaugh on Friday November 03, 2023 @07:53AM (#38127360)
Just because you also fell for it doesn't make her wrong.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Friday November 03, 2023 @12:55PM (#38131510)
I've made more money in cryptocurrency than most people will make in a lifetime, I can guess you can call that getting scammed if you want.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by gregopet on Saturday November 04, 2023 @12:34AM (#38138164)
SBF was probably saying the same thing not so long ago. Of course it's possible to make money with/during a scam, I don't think anybody is disputing that?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by kylebenzle on Monday November 06, 2023 @12:29AM (#38159206)
SBF made all his money stealing from people and arbitrage, he really had nothing to do with cryptocurrency.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by brazzy on Friday November 03, 2023 @11:43AM (#38130491)
Poe's law strikes again.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by choppaface on Friday November 03, 2023 @01:52AM (#38125026)
And where is Sam Trabucco ???
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by donkeyd on Friday November 03, 2023 @06:59AM (#38126897)
> another thing I'm wondering is about jurisdiction, since most of this occurred offshore and didn't involve US customers

This is complicated, but often it's possible to try someone in a single country, especially if it's their home country. In CSAM cases this often happens, the facts might happen in Asia, but someone is tried in their home country. I know the law in my country has provisions specifically for this and murder cases among others.