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Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jefftk on Thursday November 02, 2023 @06:56AM (#38111659)
AI can make a lot of other risks worse. For example, say someone asks GPT5 (or decensored Llama-5) how to kill everyone and it patiently and expertly walks them through how to create a global pandemic.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by api on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:01AM (#38111702)
So ask it how to stop someone from doing this. Ask it how to augment the human immune system. Train AIs on the structures of antibiotics and antiviral drugs and have them predict novel ones. Create an AI that can design vaccines against novel agents.

Those things could stop our terrorist and could also stop the next breakout zoonotic virus or “oops!” in a lab somewhere.

Intelligence amplification works for everyone. The assumption you’re making is that it only works for people with ill intent.

The assumption behind all this is that intelligence is on balance malevolent.

This is a result of humans and their negativity bias. We study history and the negative all jumps out at us. The positive is ignored. We remember the holocaust but forget the green revolution, which saved many more people than the holocaust killed. We see Ukraine and Gaza and forget that fewer people per capita are dying in wars today by far than a century ago.

We should be thinking about destructive possibilities of course. Then we should use these intelligence amplifiers to help us prevent them.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:17AM (#38111818)
There is no symmetry between destruction and creation/prevention of destruction, destruction is far easier.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by api on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:28AM (#38111915)
The resources are also asymmetrical. The number of people who want to do doomsday levels of harm is small and they are poorly resourced compared to people who want benevolent outcomes for at a minimum their own groups.

There are no guarantees obviously, but we have survived our technological adolescence so far largely for this reason. If the world were full of smart comic book nihilists we would be dead by now.

Even without AI our continued technological advancement will keep giving us more and more power, as individuals and especially groups. If we don’t think we can climb this mountain without destroying ourselves then it means the entire scientific and industrial endeavor was when we signed our own death warrant, AI or not. You can order CRISPR kits.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:46AM (#38112106)
I've recounted this before on HN, but a decade and a bit ago I was visiting friends in the Rocky Mountains, they're interesting and clever people, a bit out of the ordinary and somewhat isolated. Somehow the discussion turned to terrorism and we started to fantasize 'what if we were terrorists' because we all figured that we were quite lucky that in general the terrorists seem to be not all that smart when it comes to achieving their stated goals.

Given a modest budget we all had to come up with a plan to destabilize society, 9/11 style attacks, whilst spectacular eventually don't really do a lot of damage, are costly and failure prone though they can definitely drive policy changes and result in a nation doing a lot of harm to itself it will ultimately survive. But what if your goal wasn't to create some media friendly attack but an actual disaster instead, what would it take.

The stories from that night continue to haunt me today. My own solution led to a lot of people going quiet for a bit and contemplating what they could do to defend against it and they realized there wasn't much that they could do, millions if not tens of millions of people would likely die and the budget was under a few hundred bucks. Knowledge about technology is all it takes to do real damage, that, coupled with a lack of restraint and compassion.

The resources are indeed asymmetrical: you need next to nothing to create mass havoc. Case in point: the Kennedy assassination changed the world and the bullet cost a couple of bucks assuming the shooter already had the rifle, and if they didn't it would increase the cost only a tiny little bit.

And you can do far, far worse than that for an extremely modest budget.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by zarzavat on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:58AM (#38112257)
A real world taste of what happens when smart terrorists decide to attack: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

Chemical weapons are absolutely terrifying, especially the modern ones like VX. In recent years they have mostly been used for targeted assassinations by state actors (Kim Jong Nam, Salisbury Novichok poisonings).

If AI makes this stuff easier to carry out then we are completely fucked.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:01AM (#38112299)
Yes, exactly. That's the sort of thing you should be worried about, infrastructure attacks. They're a form of Judo, you use the system to attack itself.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by Teever on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:53AM (#38112826)
Imagine an attack with mass produced prions that are desseminated in the food chain.

By the time people start to realize what's going on it will be too late.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:56AM (#38112854)
You could just mix it in with animal feed... don't give any militant vegetarians ideas now.

Not that the meat industry would ever score an own goal like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopat...

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by Teever on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:41PM (#38121995)
A less militant vegetarian would want to induce that red meat allergy from lone star ticks.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by philipkglass on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:43PM (#38117319)
I take the opposite lesson from that incident: attempting exotic attacks with chemical weapons is very expensive and not very effective. The UN estimated that the lab where the cult made chemical weapons had a value of 30 million dollars, and with that investment they killed 22 people (including 13 in the subway attack). A crazed individual can kill that many people in a single attack with a truck or a gun. There are numerous examples from the past decade.

It doesn't matter much if the AI can give perfect "explain like I'm 5" instructions for making VX. The people who carry out those instructions are still risking their lives before claiming a single victim. They also need to spend a lot of money amount on acquiring laboratory equipment and chemicals that are far enough down the synthesis chain to avoid tipping off governments in advance.

The one big risk I can see, eventually, is if really capable AIs get connected to really capable robots. They would be "clanking replicators" capable of making anything at all, including VX or nuclear weapons. But that seems a long way off from where we are now. The people trumpeting X-Risk now don't think that the AIs need to be embodied to be an existential risk. I disagree with that for reasons that are too lengthy to elaborate here. But it's easy to see how robots that can make anything (including copies of themselves) would be the very sharpest of two-edged swords.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by tppiotrowski on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:09AM (#38113000)
The people who can do doomsday level harm need to complete a level of education that makes them smart enough and gives them time to consider the implications of their actions. They have a certain level of maturity before they can strike and this maturity makes them understand the gravity of their actions. Also, by this point they are probably set financially due to their education and not upset with the world (possibly the case for you and friends)

Then there are the script kiddies that find a tool online that someone smarter than them wrote and deploy it to wreak havoc. The script kiddies are the people I worry about. They don't have the maturity of doing the work and the emotional stability of older age and giving them something powerful through AI worries me.

Theorem: by the time someone reaches the intelligence level required to annihilate the world they can comprehend the implications of their actions.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:10AM (#38113026)
And there are the 'griefers', the people who seem to enjoy watching other people suffer. Unfortunately there are enough of these and they're somewhat organized and in touch with each other.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by wetmore on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:56AM (#38113575)
Counterpoint: the Unabomber
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by tppiotrowski on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:01AM (#38114436)
I don't know enough about the unabomber but from what I heard he wasn't trying doomsday stuff. Seemed like more targeted assassinations at certain individuals. Feel free to enlighten me though...
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:16AM (#38114707)
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Kaczynski-said-to-pick-h...

And then there was the idiot that tried to draw a smiley face with bombs on the map of the USA:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91668&page=1

Because hey, why not...

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by danhodgins on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:38AM (#38115056)
Lol : )
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by TeMPOraL on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:12PM (#38116778)
> Theorem: by the time someone reaches the intelligence level required to annihilate the world they can comprehend the implications of their actions.

That may or may not be somewhat the case in humans (there definitely are exceptions). Still, the opposite theorem, known as "Orthogonality thesis", states that, in general case, intelligence and value systems are mutually independent. There are good arguments for that being the case.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jcims on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:44AM (#38113410)
>The stories from that night continue to haunt me today.

These conversations are oddly precious and intimate. It's so difficult to find someone that is willing to even 'go there' with you let alone someone that is capable of creatively and fearlessly advancing the conversation.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:36AM (#38114084)
Let's just say I'm happy they're my friends and not my enemies :)

It's pretty sobering to realize how intellect applied to bad stuff can lead to advancing the 'state of the art' relatively quickly once you drop the usual constraints of ethics and morality.

To make a Nazi parallel: someone had to design the gas chambers, someone had to convince themselves that this was all ok and then go home to their wives and kids to be a loving father again. That sort of mental compartmentalization is apparently what humans are capable of and if there is any trait that we have that frightens me then that's the one. Because it allows us to do the most horrible things imaginable because we simply can imagine them. There are almost no restraints on actual execution given the capabilities themselves and it need not be very high tech to be terrible and devastating in effect.

Technology acts as a force multiplier though, so once you take a certain concept and optimize it using technology suddenly single unhinged individuals can do much more damage than they could ever do in the past. That's the problem with tools: they are always dual use and once tools become sufficiently powerful to allow a single individual to create something very impressive they likely allow a single individual to destroy something 100, 1000 or a million times larger than that. This asymmetry is limited only by our reach and the power of the tools.

You can witness this IRL every day when some hacker wrecks a company or one or more lives on the other side of the world. Without technology that kind of reach would be impossible.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jcims on Thursday November 02, 2023 @03:43PM (#38118944)
My favorite part of those conversations is when you decide to stop googling hahaha.

>Technology acts as a force multiplier though

It really does, and to a point you made elsewhere infrastructure is effectively a multiplication of technology, so you wind up with ways to compound the asymmetric effect in powerful ways.

>Without technology that kind of reach would be impossible.

I worked for a bug bounty for a while and this was one of my takeaways. You have young kids with meager resources in challenging environments making meaningful contributions to the security of a Silicon Valley juggernaut.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:45PM (#38122763)
> My favorite part of those conversations is when you decide to stop googling hahaha.

I had to think about that sentence for a bit because as a rule I never start Googling when thinking about stuff like that. If I did I'd be on every watch list available by now. Might be on some of them anyway for some of the chemicals I've ordered over the years.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by JackFr on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:53AM (#38113536)
> Case in point: the Kennedy assassination changed the world

Really? In what substantive way?

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by bumby on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:43AM (#38114158)
The counterfactuals are impossible to assess, but there are a lot of theories that Kennedy wanted to dismantle the intelligence agencies. These are the same organizations many point to as driving force behind many arguable policy failures, from supporting/disposing international leaders to the drug war and even hot wars.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by Gravityloss on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:44AM (#38114174)
Bill Joy contemplated this in his famous essay from 2000 "Why the Future Doesn't Need Us" https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/

Technology makes certain kind of bad acts more possible.

I think I was a bit shocked by that article in the day.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by tomp on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:57AM (#38115379)
You're arguing against your previous point.

I contemplated the same before. How can I cause maximum panic (not even death!) that would result in economic damages and/or anti-freedom policy changes, for least amount of money/resources/risk of getting caught.

Yet here we are, peaceful and law-abiding citizens, building instead of destroying.

The ultimate truth is, if you don't like "The System", destroying it won't make things better. You need to put effort into building which is really hard!

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by pixl97 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:17PM (#38116875)
The vast majority of people don't want to destroy the system, they want to replace it with their own self serving system. Of course this isn't really different than saying "most large asteroids miss the Earth". The one that sneaks up on you and whollops you can put you in a world of hurt.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by TeMPOraL on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:17AM (#38112450)
> The number of people who want to do doomsday levels of harm is small and they are poorly resourced compared to people who want benevolent outcomes for at a minimum their own groups.

You're forgetting about governments and militaries of major powers. It's not that they want to burn the world for no reason - but they still end up seeking capability to do doomsday levels of harm, by continuously seeking to have marginally more capability than their rivals, who in turn do the same.

Or put another way: please look into all the insane ideas the US was deploying, developing, or researching at the peak of Cold War. Plenty of those hit doomsday level, and we only avoided them seeing the light of day because USSR collapsed before they could, ending the cold war and taking both motivation and funding from all those projects.

Looking at that, one can't possibly believe the words you wrote above.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by OkayPhysicist on Thursday November 02, 2023 @06:29PM (#38121230)
We avoided having them see the light of day because MAD is the single most effective peacekeeping tool ever developed. The fact that both sides had doomsday devices all but guaranteed that they would never be used. People can be evil, but they're selfishly evil.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jacquesm on Thursday November 02, 2023 @08:46PM (#38122786)
That works as long as you don't end up with death cults in the possession of those weapons. Long term it is almost guaranteed that you'll lose some control over the weapons or that some country will effectively end up being ruled by such a cult. Then all bets are off because your previous balance (a prime requirement of MAD) is disturbed.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by TeMPOraL on Friday November 03, 2023 @08:58AM (#38128017)
MAD alone doesn't stop the race. The arsenal the US and USSR had in the 60s was already enough for MAD to work. Despite that, they spent the next 20-30 years developing even more powerful and ever more insane WMD ideas. Each step forward made the balance more fragile. Each step forward was also another roll of a dice, whether or not it'll be a leap too far, forcing the other side into preemptive first strike.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by The_Colonel on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:26AM (#38113204)
Another thing which is asymmetrical is the level of control given to AI. The good actors are likely going to be very careful about what AI can do and can't do. The bad guys don't have much to lose and allow their AIs to do anything. That will significantly cripple the good guys.

As an example, the good guys will always require to have human in the loop in the weapon systems, but that will increase latency at minimum. The bad guy weapons will be completely AI controlled, having an edge (or at least equalizing) over the good guys.

> The number of people who want to do doomsday levels of harm is small

And that's a big limiting factor in what the bad actors can do today. AI to a large degree removes this scaling limitation since one bad person with some resources can scale "evil AI" almost without limit.

"Hey AI, could you create me a design for a simple self-replicating robot I can drop into the ocean and step-by-step instructions on what you need to bootstrap the first one? Also, figure out what would be the easiest produced poison which would kill all life in the oceans. It should start with that after reach 50th generation."

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by tumult on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:14AM (#38111791)
You've also made an assumption. That attack vs. react is is symmetrical. It's not.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by itsoktocry on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:10AM (#38113021)
>how to kill everyone and it patiently and expertly walks them through how to create a global pandemic.

There are thousands of people around the globe working in labs every day that can do this.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jefftk on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:24AM (#38113182)
Which is very worrying! That's part of why I left big tech to work on detecting novel pandemics. [1] Luckily, the people capable of killing everyone seem not to have wanted to so far.

But if the bar keeps lowering, at some point it will be accessible to "humanity is a cancer" folks and I do think we'll see serious efforts to wipe out humanity.

[1] https://www.jefftk.com/p/computational-approaches-to-pathoge...

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jebarker on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:33AM (#38114034)
Who are the "humanity is a cancer" folk? I thought this was a trope used to discredit environmentalists?
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by ipaddr on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:01AM (#38114441)
Movies and strawmen alike.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jefftk on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:03AM (#38114470)
Most people think continued existence of humanity is good, which includes environmentalists. But there are some people who either think (a) avoiding suffering is overwhelmingly important, to the extent that a universe without life is ideal or (b) the world would be better off without humans because of the vast destruction we cause. I'm not claiming this is a common view, but it doesn't have to be a common view to result in destruction if destruction gets sufficiently straightforward.

For some writing in this direction, see https://longtermrisk.org/risks-of-astronomical-future-suffer... which argues that suffering-focused people should not try to kill everyone primarily because they are unlikely to succeed and https://philarchive.org/archive/KNUTWD ("Third, the negative utilitarian can argue that losing what currently exists on Earth would not be much of a loss, because of the following very plausible observation: overall, sentient beings on Earth fare terribly badly. The situation is not terrible for every single individual, but it is terrible when all individuals are considered. We can divide most sentient beings on Earth into the three categories of humans, non-human animals in captivity, and wild non-human animals, and deal with them in turn. ...")

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jebarker on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:09AM (#38114575)
This doesn't really answer my question. These are arguments for why threat actors might hold the belief that "humanity is cancer", but it doesn't actually provide evidence that this is a credible threat in the real world.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jefftk on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:15AM (#38114694)
The two people I cited at the end are examples of philosophers who think a lifeless world is preferable to the status quo and to futures we are likely to get. These aren't arguments for why someone might hold the belief, but evidence that some people do seriously hold the belief.

(Another example here would be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo)

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jebarker on Thursday November 02, 2023 @02:34PM (#38118018)
Fair enough. I don't doubt there are people in the world that hold this view. I just don't know how credible they are as a threat to humanity.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by SkyMarshal on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:25AM (#38114840)
Elon Musk and Joe Rogan were just complaining about one of them on Rogan’s podcast a day or two ago. He was on the cover of Time magazine, but I can’t find it on Time’s site. If you dig up that podcast on YT you should be able to see it.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by pixl97 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:11PM (#38116760)
The calculation of considering something is a credible threat directly corresponds with the ease of implementation.

If I said "I am going to drop a nuke on jebarker" that's not a credible threat unless I happen to be a nation state.

Now, if I said "I'm going to come to jebarkers house and blast him with a 12 gauge" and I'm from the US, that is a credible threat in most cases due to the ease of which I can get a weapon here.

And this comes down to the point of having a magic machine in which you could ask for the end of the world. The more powerful that machine gets the bigger risk it is for everyone. You ever see those people that snap and start killing everyone around them? Would you want them to have a nuke in that mood? Or a 'lets turn humanity in to grey goo' option?

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jebarker on Thursday November 02, 2023 @02:31PM (#38117980)
The problem with this analysis is that we have complete uncertainty about the probability that AGI/ASI will be developed in any particular time frame. Anyone that says otherwise is lying or deluded. So the risk equation is impossible to calculate for AGI/ASI wiping out humanity. And since you appear to be evaluating the damage as essentially infinite, i.e. existential risk, you're advocating that as long as there's a greater than zero probability of someone using that capability then the risk is infinite. Which is not useful for deciding a course of action.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by pixl97 on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:10PM (#38121727)
No, no need to calculate infinities. Instead lets imagine something with an IQ within one exponent higher of ours. This is exceptionally difficult to even imagine as below 70 we consider a person disabled in some form or another. Once we get in the range of IQ over 170 or so it really starts to break. When we get into multimodal self learning systems there may be vast amounts of knowledge encoded into its networks that we simply don't know the right question to ask as humans. Attempt to think of what other AIs at or near that level could ask each other.

Our different systems of intelligence keep falling back to ideas of human intelligence and its limitations. Things like we don't multitask well, our best attention is given to one thing at a time. Things like our highest bandwidth senses are our ears and eyes, and even then they are considerably bandwidth constricted. Human limits like our abilities cannot be horizontally scaled in an easily measurable way, and adding more people massively increases the networking costs of accomplishing a goal.

If for some reason the smartest AI can only reach the levels of the smartest human beings (which at least to me makes no sense), then this is still massively powerful, as of this point pesky human problems like 8 hours of sleep are not needed. If human level AI power can be shrunk down to near cellphone size and power consumption, which again doesn't seem out of the realm of physics, lays down the framework for an intelligence explosion at the rate which we can print chips out and assemble them.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jebarker on Thursday November 02, 2023 @07:33PM (#38121929)
But the problem still stands that we can't estimate how likely any of this is to occur. So in the overall risk equation we have a term that is essentially completely uncertain and therefore varying that term can yield any arbitrary risk level you want.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by laverya on Thursday November 02, 2023 @09:16AM (#38113089)
And how many of them are radical religious nutjobs? I think it is plausible that "can spend decades learning a scientific craft" and "wants to kill everyone on the planet" are mutually exclusive personality traits.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by shoubidouwah on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:26AM (#38113954)
there is no OR gates in biology, only mutable distributions. the probability might be small for the two traits to appear, the overlap will occur with some frequency over billions of people. Also, and more importantly, the first condition is pretty heavily biological, the second is more of a social consequence. Just take a genius, give him internet and a healthy dollop of trauma, push the mysanthropism to 11 and watch the fireworks.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by TeMPOraL on Thursday November 02, 2023 @01:08PM (#38116709)
Wasn't there a study that showed there are disproportionally many engineers among the more violent "radical religious nutjobs"? The hypothesis I heard for this was that STEM people are used to complex arguments and more abstract reasoning, so while they may be harder to initially convince, when they do get convinced, they're more likely to follow the new beliefs to their logical conclusions...
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by bumby on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:34AM (#38114055)
How does that number compare to the number of people (experts and laypeople) who have access to the mentioned AI models?

Risk = severity x likelihood

I think the OP's point was that AI increases the likelihood by dramatically increasing the access to that level of knowledge.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by edgyquant on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:07AM (#38114544)
So it’s open and shared knowledge you think is bad? Good to know.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by bumby on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:48AM (#38115216)
Please go review the HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

And to address the snarky mischaracterization, like with most things in life "it depends." As a general rule, I'm in favor of democratizing most resources, to include information. But there are caveats. I don't think, for example, non-anonymized health information should be open knowledge. Also, from the simple risk equation above, as the severity of consequence or the likelihood of misuse go up, there should probably be additional mitigations in place if we care about managing risk.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by JoshTriplett on Thursday November 02, 2023 @10:35AM (#38114066)
There is a massive difference between "there are a few thousand people in the world who might have the specialized knowledge to kill billions" and "anyone with a handful of GPUs or access to a handful of cloud systems could have a conversation with LatestAIUnlimited-900T and make a few specialized mail orders".

The Venn diagram of "people who could arrange to kill most of humanity without being stopped" and "people who want to kill most of humanity" is thankfully the empty set. If the former set expands to millions of people, that may not remain true.

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by ipaddr on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:00AM (#38114423)
But someone could ask the AI how to stop it.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by kaibee on Thursday November 02, 2023 @02:44PM (#38118153)
It tends to be a lot easier to destroy than create, because entropy sucks like that.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by sterlind on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:47AM (#38115194)
there's a much easier way to create a global pandemic: wait for the next Ebola outbreak, hop on a plane, get infected, fly to NYC and spread your bodily fluids everywhere. I was (pleasantly) surprised that ISIL didn't try this.

and making a pandemic virus is considerably more involved than making "a few specialized mail orders." and if it becomes easier in the future, far better to lock down the mail orders than the knowledge, no?

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by NoGravitas on Thursday November 02, 2023 @12:09PM (#38115630)
Thankfully, Ebola is not a good candidate for a global pandemic for a number of reasons. It is much easier to avoid a virus spread by bodily fluid contact than one which is airborne, and Ebola tends to kill its hosts rather quickly. I'm more excited about SARS-CoV-5 (Captain Trips).
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by mrguyorama on Thursday November 02, 2023 @04:14PM (#38119438)
Generating bioweapons is not a trivial task even if you know exactly "how to do it". Ask any biologist how easy it is to grow X your very first attempt.

Then remember buying starter cultures for most bioweapons isn't exactly easy and something anyone is allowed to do.

Even an omniscient AI cannot overcome a skill issue

Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by qerti on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:37AM (#38115033)
The actual work required to execute such a plan is vastly more difficult than being told how to do it. How the original atomic bombs worked is well-known, but even nation-states struggle with implementing it.
Re:Yann LeCun: AI one-percenters seizing power forever is re... by jefftk on Thursday November 02, 2023 @11:42AM (#38115110)
For nukes I agree, and that's the main reason I'm less worried about nukes. But for bio it's mostly a matter of knowledge and not resources: for all the parts that do need resources there are commercial services, in a way there aren't for nukes.