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Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ChicagoBoy11 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @10:04AM (#38025736)
I'm an immigrant myself, and I share this sentiment deeply as well. The best description which I ever heard, curiously enough, was on a really old episode of this American life. My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I think it was some small story of folks doing car audio competitions, where the point was to build the car with the loudest possible speaker. It was absurd, silly, and for a nerd, obviously enthralling.

But at some point, I don't know if it is the narrator or someone in the story, but they say something to the effect of: "Everyone wants to be king of the hill, but there aren't enough hills to go around. The US is particularly great at creating more hills."

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by zsmizzle on Thursday October 26, 2023 @10:42AM (#38026232)
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ChicagoBoy11 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @10:54AM (#38026387)
Ha, yeah, that's it. And, the quote in question, from David Segal, apparently:

"Everyone wants to be the king of the hill. That's international. But the number of aspiring kings always dwarfs the number of available hills. So in this country, we build more hills. We're geniuses, in fact, at building more hills."

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by dempedempe on Thursday October 26, 2023 @11:33AM (#38026941)
[delayed]
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by robertlagrant on Thursday October 26, 2023 @11:46AM (#38027193)
They affect health by creating enormous numbers of new fields for research and medicine, which after patent expiry is generified and manufactured cheaply for eternity.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by dempedempe on Thursday October 26, 2023 @10:42PM (#38034096)
You can have medical research without charging $1000 for an ambulance ride, $10k - $20k for having a child, $100,000 for staying in the hospital a few days. Those are the things I'm talking about.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:45AM (#38036084)
You can, but these are complex systems, where some areas will have a profit incentive and be efficient, and others just mired in regulation, either directly or in a way that prevents competition arising. I don't think anyone deliberately built that hill. It's made up of lots of awesome hills and lots of hideous quagmires.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ativzzz on Thursday October 26, 2023 @11:53AM (#38027304)
Pick your poison - would you rather have too many hills or not enough hills? Turns out limiting hill making is complex, and requires an even bigger hill that calls the shots
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Podgajski on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:04PM (#38027542)
I would, in fact, rather, we had a flat landscape.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ativzzz on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:17PM (#38027742)
A flat landscape implies no opportunity for anyone to do anything. If you really want, go live in the wilderness on your own. That is the only true flat landscape
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Podgajski on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:37PM (#38028071)
Flat landscape means no one rules over anyone else. I means you can give people authority but you can take away that authority without repercussions.

If you want to live in a world subjected by a king or some fool on a hill, go ahead. I don’t pretend like you’re anything other than a peasant.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ativzzz on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:52PM (#38029203)
> no one rules over anyone else

This is impossible, because in this scenario, someone will get weapons and will forcefully take over and rule everyone else. This is just how human nature works

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Podgajski on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:00PM (#38030980)
Wow, you have such a depressing take on human existence.

I don’t see people getting weapons and taking over people in the streets, do you?

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by satvikpendem on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:28PM (#38031299)
Why not? Lots of countries have gang problems, including the US. Countries are just the same issue, scaled up.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by lazide on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:44PM (#38032091)
Because the cops or (worse case) the military will step in and stomp on them.

In this context, good luck showing how they are anything but particularly well armed and organized gangs.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Izkata on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:05PM (#38032788)
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ativzzz on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:41AM (#38039977)
It's not depressing at all! It's actually just part of natural selection. We, as living beings, will compete for resources. This is why us humans are as dominant as we are on this planet, and why we will continue to spread as far as we can. If we were not like this, our species would have never made it to modern homo sapiens and would have died out tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago

That's because we've built some very large hills to prevent this - notably powerful governments with militaries and police forces. Lack of hills is essentially anarchy, where all of a sudden the strongest now become the ruler

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by waterheater on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:57PM (#38029293)
Your system only works if everyone is uniform. Unless you strongly disincentivize or eliminate the desire to see over the heads of the crowd standing on the plain, a taller person will be able to see further than a shorter person. The shorter person, who happens to desire to see at least as far as the taller person, may then try to scoop some dirt into a pile to get their head above the crowd. Hills and valleys of all types will then be made by the taller person to preserve an unobstructed line of sight.

The only way a person can absolutely reject authority is to live alone in wild territory (since managed territory is ruled by governing authorities). This scheme works until another person decides they want to live in the wilderness and happen to choose the exact same spot of woods as you, which is statistically probable since some geographic locations are more desirous than others. At that point, you will either find a way to coexist with this person or attempt to push them out. If you try to push them out, you're saying you're the ruler of the territory, so that option contradicts the objective of rejecting authority, for how can you say you reject authority and then become authority without being a hypocrite?

So, the only viable option is to coexist. Over time, more people who reject authority arrive, and you must coexist with them or pack your bags for somewhere else, which you really don't want to do. Presumably, you'll work the land in some way to provide for your own sustenance. One day, your neighbor accuses you of killing their livestock overnight. You obviously didn't, and you tell them that, but they just don't believe you because they know they saw you on their land the previous night. At this point, you're frustrated because you're innocent but can't demonstrate it, and the other people who reject authority like yourself are unable to decide who to listen to because neither one of you has more authority than the other. Someone comes up with the idea of writing down a common set of life principles and rules for dispute arbitration, so both legal and judicial systems are born. Down the line, someone decides to ignore the arbitration outcome, and the community decides that arbitration outcomes must be respected, so enforcement systems are created. At that point, everyone living in that spot of wild territory have created a government under the rule of law.

The point of all this is, at some level, we are all ruled by something, be it a single human or a government. Are you primarily taking issue with monarchy? If so, absolute monarchy exists in only a handful of places in the world, with most monarchies being constitutional monarchies which delegate much political authority to democratically-elected individuals. And yes, some people like trusting that the rulers will do a good job. If that makes them peasants, so be it, but consider that even the people in the wilderness community must hope that their government under the rule of law will be successful. If they aren't rooting for its success and actively work against it, the rule of law will eventually collapse.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Podgajski on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:01PM (#38030987)
It is not about rejecting authority, it’s about being able to choose who has authority over you.

You talk about absolute marquee like you don’t sell yourself to it every day when you walk into work.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Podgajski on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:53PM (#38028345)
I want to add as well, that you will all deride Elon Musk, but in secret you want to be Elon musk, you want to be that same person on top of the hill. So, even though you’re not him, you’re no better than him.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by ativzzz on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:51PM (#38029189)
> I want to add as well, that you will all deride Elon Musk, but in secret you want to be Elon musk, you want to be that same person on top of the hill. So, even though you’re not him, you’re no better than him.

Yes, this is what America is built on. American culture is winner take all, and we generally want to be the winner.

We don't deride his success, we deride the fact that he acts like a child on social media

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by VincentEvans on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:32PM (#38031968)
The fact that you are so sure of what your are saying here is a reflection of your own character. You are projecting.

I am not the person you are replying to, but I assure you that “I” never wanted to be a on top of anything. I don’t want celebrity or wealth. I want to be left alone most of all, and having just enough to achieve it.

Just telling you this so that your horizons of what people want open up a tad and you don’t assume that everyone around you is a different looking copy of you.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by civilitty on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:22PM (#38027840)
Have you ever been to Florida?

Cause that’s how you get Florida (and saltwater intrusion)

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by sparselogic on Thursday October 26, 2023 @03:04PM (#38030285)
I tend to read Harrison Bergeron as cautionary tale, not inspiration…

https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Berge...

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by dempedempe on Thursday October 26, 2023 @10:37PM (#38034058)
[delayed]
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by plz-remove-card on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:16PM (#38028684)
> The US is particularly great at creating more hills.

Because the US government has a money printer and an insatiable appetite for debt. The day will come for us, our kids, or our grandkids where it catches up to us.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by thatnerdyguy on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:25PM (#38028804)
I think that the argument goes US debt actually really doesn't matter, so long as Pax Americana is maintained. Being the global empire really helps out... until it doesn't
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by saturn8601 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:56PM (#38033160)
The US is running out of challengers. Europe is gone...like gone gone. Ditto Russia. China has a demographic bomb coming but they have a lot of things going for them so maybe they are the next challenger? Maybe India? They have problems but they too have a lot going for them.

I guess it is possible that maybe in a generation or two Europe, Russia, China can fix their problems, get a solid working class and challenge the US.

But it really feels like the entire planet is sinking right now and the US is the best of the worst.

Maybe we need some aliens or something.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by rewmie on Thursday October 26, 2023 @01:31PM (#38028882)
> Because the US government has a money printer (...)

I don't think your non-sequitur bears even a passing resemblance to the subject.

I think the whole point of the thread you're replying on is mentioning the individualism and personal freedom that's the US's cultural basis, and that has a profound impact on the well-being of those who feel the need to be the best of what they do, regardless if what that might be.

A while ago I stumbled upon an Instagram account of a middle-age man who had a bunch of videos of him juggling random stuff in his back yard, and he made it his point to stress that he was the best at what he did and he made a whole career out of it. Such a random thing, and I'm sure there weren't that many competitors for the title of best pillow juggler, but that fit definitely the description of someone making his own hill to be its king.

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Obscurity4340 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:01PM (#38029353)
Also valleys tho. Gotta have a lot of lows to have that many highs There's definitely at least three Americas. And that bottom America is a frightening reality that so many have never known otherwise
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by bwanab on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:05PM (#38029424)
Even so, putting on Rawl's Veil of Ignorance, if you were in the bottom America, would you choose to be in a lottery that would place you, randomly, in another situation? Sure, you might end up a living in a chalet in the Swiss Alps, but it's a lot more likely you'd be in the global south toiling just to survive day to day.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Obscurity4340 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:16PM (#38029600)
I guess I might be often missing the part that like even if you're the poorest here, like you're technically still richer and have better qol that many other jurisdictions. Reminds me of Dracula where he's in the shitty ghetto apartment that is depressing af and he's beaming like "Kings never knew such luxury"

Still though particularly in places like Appalachia or rougher cities, its terrifying. America is realky liberty or death with few in-betweens

Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by kylebenzle on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:16PM (#38029593)
US still has 2nd highest murder rate and highest incarceration, so just statistically, absolutely ANYWHERE BUT America if you are at the bottom, US is great for the middle and upper classes.
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by Obscurity4340 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @02:24PM (#38029707)
Thats kinda what I was obliquely referring to originally
Re:U.S. GDP grew at a 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter,... by sokoloff on Thursday October 26, 2023 @06:37PM (#38032570)
If I sort this table by rate, US is 53rd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

If I sort this table by rate (and exclude a small territory), the US is 5th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...