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Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by joelfried on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:11AM (#38000299)
I don't know about OP, but I definitely do. If you do not know enough to answer correctly, do not answer. If you do not know enough to know if you are certain, adjust what you say to be accurate. If every answer becomes "I don't know but I can check with our teams", the Congressional response should be "We subpoena the team to answer these questions".

Allowing the CEO of any company to present a factually false answer to Congress while representing the company and speaking from a position of expertise provides awfully perverse incentives for _every single CEO_ to misrepresent his company if there are no repercussions for provably false testimony.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:16AM (#38000361)
What if you think you know, and are certain that your testimony is correct, but are wrong nonetheless?
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by joelfried on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:34AM (#38000618)
That's what a trial is for. There should still be a trial!

The alternative seems worse. If there's never punishment for lies every unscrupulous person called to testify will provide whatever is in their best interests instead of providing the truth.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:41AM (#38000721)
There is punishment for lying. We're talking about if you are being honest but are wrong.

Also, this particular case is about testifying to congress. It's not a criminal trial in a court of law.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by joelfried on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:50PM (#38001823)
If you are being summoned as a corporate representative to testify to Congress, you should be sure about your answers. Do you think these people are wrong so regularly about the business they run?

I didn't think I was being particularly obtuse but you seem to have missed the point: Providing provably false answers to Congress as part of sworn testimony should trigger prosecutors to look into perjury charges. Perjury is what we are talking about here and that has a mechanism: the legal system.

Yes, I think that a C level executive who comes to Congress and testifies confidently about something his business does and is wrong about it should trigger a potential prosecution.

This is about testifying to Congress and what happens when you say something provably false as an expert under Oath. If you are not certain of what you are testifying about, do not testify to it. If you are certain and wrong, you should be afraid of repercussions. Anything else opens up Pandora's Box.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:59PM (#38001966)
> Providing provably false answers to Congress as part of sworn testimony should trigger prosecutors to look into perjury charges.

Well, in this case, it should trigger congress to look into it, but I agree. And we know that happens because congress has done so in the past. Such an initial investigation would certainly (and correctly) be done quietly, and we're not likely to know about it unless that investigation determines that perjury may have actually happened.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by pdonis on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:16PM (#38002182)
> this particular case is about testifying to congress. It's not a criminal trial in a court of law.

But it's still testimony given under oath. AFAIK perjury is still applicable under those circumstances.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:55PM (#38002754)
It is, but the enforcement mechanism is a bit different.
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by pdonis on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @02:13PM (#38003032)
How so?
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @10:44AM (#38013356)
In a court, the court determines if something is perjury and what the repercussions will be. That's not the case with congress. With congress, the congressional committee doesn't decide if perjury happened. It has to ask the Department of Justice to investigate and, if it did, the DoJ has the option of bringing charges in an actual court of law.

It may seem like a small difference, but it's pretty large in practice.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by ceejayoz on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @02:17PM (#38003071)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1621

> willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true

Intent (“willfully”) matters.

If you believe the statement is true when you say it, it isn’t perjury. It’s just incorrect.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by pdonis on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:46PM (#38006738)
> If you believe the statement is true when you say it, it isn’t perjury. It’s just incorrect.

Yes, but whether you believed the statement was true when you said is not just a matter of your saying so. Other evidence can be brought to bear on the question: for example, as I have said elsewhere in this discussion, asking you how you came to believe that what you said was true, and you either admitting that you just made it up or had no good reason to believe it, or giving obviously false or evasive answers, or answers that are rebutted by other evidence (for example, you say you were told it by someone who denies that they did so). That could lead a jury in a perjury trial to conclude that in fact you were wilfully lying, even though you deny it.

Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:50PM (#38006768)
Yes, but when given evidence from which they might draw other conclusions, a trier of fact may not be inclined to heavily favor your testimony about your state of mind when you gave your false but maybe-or-maybe-not willfully false testimony.
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by Manozco on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:49AM (#38000855)
Maybe you should not be the one representing your company at a Congress hearing if you have this behavior..
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by JohnFen on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:32PM (#38001567)
So only people who never make a mistake should be testifying? That's a pretty small pool.
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by ceejayoz on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:55AM (#38000975)
Congress bears some responsibility in that case; they should stop calling in the CEO for the hearing, who they know won't know the nitty-gritty technical implementation. They should request documents from the technical team involved, and subpoena a representative from it who can speak confidently on its function.
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by mrguyorama on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @02:00PM (#38002836)
So let me get this straight: The CEO can't possibly be expected to know what goes on at their company, and we should allow them to incentivize internal directors to simply lie to the CEO so the CEO can say whatever they want in front of congress and pretend "they were honestly wrong"
Re:When is privacy button not a privacy button? When Google ... by ceejayoz on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @02:10PM (#38002983)
The CEO’s job is high-level strategy. It’s like asking the President how to process an application for SSDI; they haven’t a fucking clue. (Nor should they!)