News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by lefstathiou on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:41PM (#37976891)
Anecdotal “proof”: In the heart of Manhattan’s ultra trendy Chelsea neighborhood is the Chelsea market which is now this super trendy food hall. In the basement is a delicious butcher named Dicksons where literally hundreds of New Yorkers and tourists eat and drink craft beers while they literally saw entire pigs and baby calfs in half and dangle their carcasses in clear eye sight of where you sit and eat. I take my family there all the time because of how tasty and fresh the meats are and my children love it.

Showing people where their meat comes isn’t going to reduce the demand in my opinion. I personally believe people should know where their food comes from as it reduces waste and garners introspection about our role in the planet and ecosystem.

I’m Greek American and lamb on the spit is a cultural tradition on Easter. As a kid, it was very weird for my American friends to pick food directly off of a carcass but so many told me over the years it was an unforgettable experience. My uncle once took me to the farm in Georgia where he got the lamb, handed me a large knife and asked me to slit its throat, I was 13 at the time. I couldn’t do it, I cried and watched him do it. I will never forget that. To this day I have a profound love and appreciation of animals, especially lambs. I still eat them. The two ideas for me are not conflicted to me. The only thing I abhor when it comes to meat is wastefulness.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:43PM (#37976915)
Go show your kid a real factory farm instead of a high-end butcher in a trendy food hall and report back! Easy experiment to run and your kids’ reaction could settle this debate.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by lefstathiou on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:50PM (#37976975)
Of course seeing something you haven’t seen is shocking. To make someone give up meat is a stretch. My kids have been up close and personal to butchers in wet markets chopping up fish, pigs and chickens in Taiwan. This is the daily way of life for billions of people. I believe people over estimate the reaction this would garner from most of the world’s population, which indicates to me that a similar reaction would happen here if we saw it regularly.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:55PM (#37977003)
So the shock of a factory farm is just the shock of “seeing something new,” akin to going to Disneyland for the first time?

OP said “more people would be vegan” which I think is strictly true. Everyone? No. Would a lot of people reduce their meat consumption from the currently obscene 150+ animals per year (average American)? Probably.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by michaelgburton on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:18PM (#37977224)
150+ animals per person per year? Citation needed.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ironSkillet on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:00PM (#37977598)
There's just no way it's true. A single cow can feed someone who eats beef often for an entire year.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by mcpackieh on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:33PM (#37977876)
Count chickens it's a plausible number. If you count things like small fish and shrimp then it's probably a severe underestimate. I guess he isn't counting those, self-described vegans often don't for some reason.

I probably eat a thousand anchovies a year alone.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:51PM (#37977999)
FWIW I'm actually not a vegan, or even a vegetarian. I eat and thoroughly enjoy meat.

But anyway yes, most of the specific individuals animals killed are chickens and water creatures of various types.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:49PM (#37977975)
How long can a single shrimp or chicken feed someone?
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:50PM (#37977988)
https://countinganimals.com/how-many-animals-does-a-vegetari...

Here's a pretty good analysis based on USDA data. Prediction: "Seafood don't count! for handwavehandwave reasons!"

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by dopidopHN on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:23PM (#37978274)
Again; butchers are fine. The animal is dead already.

What you are missing is the industrial process we put together in the last 70 years to produce more meat; cheaper and faster.

Those are weird, and inhuman.

Those technics make most people uncomfortable. If not, the amount of antibiotics we have to pump into the animal to keep them healthy will hirk another slice of the public.

A data point here is the % of depression in slaughter house worker. Those are the one that are exposed for real.

Not a wet meat market worker, not a fancy butcher.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by djbusby on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:10PM (#37977139)
Ugh, or large scale dairy-farm. Milk production is gross! But, manually getting milk from one happy cow is... much less gross...almost fun even.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by mcpackieh on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:48PM (#37977969)
When I was in elementary school it seemed like we took a field trip to a dairy farm two or three times a year every year. Not some traditional dairy farm for tourists, but a big factory-style dairy farm owned by a big company that had farms and distribution covering the entire state. They showed us the calves in veal crates.

I don't think it turned many people off milk and cheese. Actually the grossest field trip we ever went on was to a potato chip factory, the stink of rotten potatoes was overwhelming. They never took us to a pig or chicken farm though, I've been to a few at other times and those would have beat the chip factory easily. A lot of people who grow up around cows say they appreciate the small (I do, to an extent) but I've never heard anybody say that about pigs or chickens.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by JohnFen on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:52PM (#37978004)
Factory farms are pure nightmare fuel.

But showing people factory farms, I think, is less likely to make people become vegans than it is to make people agitate for more humane forms of slaughter.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by ethanbond on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:53PM (#37978014)
I think it'd do both, and either/both is an improvement. Which is, of course, why factory farms try so hard to disallow their operations from being shown.
Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by JohnFen on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:05PM (#37978127)
Oh, I agree that would be an improvement. I'm just saying most people will get more emotionally distressed by animal torture than about killing animals for food.

But I should admit my bias here: I am not a vegetarian (although I don't eat a great deal of meat either) and so I'm not upset that animals are killed for food. But I get very worked up about animals being tortured whether they're ending up as food or not, so I'm ascribing to "most people" what I feel myself, which is always a bit questionable.

Re:George Carlin's "Soft Language" by dopidopHN on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:18PM (#37978224)
you must realize that a high end butcher has nothing to do with a meat factory where the bulk of our meat is coming from?

Bring your family to the one where they crush the male chick on a conveyor belt next time. ( chick culling, you can find video online and watch it before the omelet dinner )

Or just a good ol’ bunch of pigs understanding very well what’s gonna happen and try to escape. It’s kinda cute.

Or you could discuss why a cow produce milk. That it needs to had deliver a calf recently. And how impregnate the cow ( it’s a “rape rack” device ) and then finish by the cow following the calves in despair over cookie and milk.

— A butcher is not a industrial meat factory.

The latter are the issue.