News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by malfist on Monday October 16, 2023 @11:36AM (#37901329)
EPA regulation is not going to reduce wildfires. Conflating it's pollution measurements with those from non-industrial sources just makes EPA's job harder and less meaningful.
Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by mrpopo on Monday October 16, 2023 @12:01PM (#37901773)
I was talking about dust storms in my comment, because it happened in the USA as well in the 1930s (dust bowl) and pushed the US government to create the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS).

The point is that there needs to be a regulatory government tool to assess, measure, predict and prevent human-caused natural pollution, be it from dust storms or wildfires or anything else.

If you believe that shouldn't be the EPA's job, then it needs to be someone else's.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by meragrin_ on Monday October 16, 2023 @12:55PM (#37902719)
How is including days where Canadian smoke covered Ohio, Pennsylvania, and whatever other states useful in regulating pollution caused by local industry?
Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by mrpopo on Monday October 16, 2023 @02:58PM (#37904490)
I explicitly said that if you think it isn't the EPA's job, then it should be someone else's job, and not just ignored. How do you think this could be tackled?

Also, if you have read the article, you could see that Ohio and Pennsylvania were low on the list, with <10 days excluded. California and New Mexico have >50, and that smoke ain't coming from Canada, so your point is deceptive...

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by jjk166 on Monday October 16, 2023 @03:48PM (#37905390)
Wildfires are handled by the US department of the Interior.

That being said, the question "who should tackle forest fires" is completely irrelevant to how the EPA should implement their emissions standards.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by meragrin_ on Monday October 16, 2023 @09:41PM (#37909312)
> I explicitly said that if you think it isn't the EPA's job, then it should be someone else's job, and not just ignored. How do you think this could be tackled?

I did not explicitly say whether it should be the EPA's job or not. The data being nixed is at the local level. No one said it should be ignored at higher levels.

> Also, if you have read the article, you could see that Ohio and Pennsylvania were low on the list, with <10 days excluded. California and New Mexico have >50, and that smoke ain't coming from Canada, so your point is deceptive...

Sorry, but it is not deceptive. You just seem to fail to understand there can be local level data useful for regulating local companies and macro level data for getting a better overall picture. The article was specifically talking about lower than state level. Should a forest or industrial fire two counties over ruin another county? At least for California, I would imagine the locals have great motivation to have something they have no control over stricken from their record since the state more than likely uses EPA numbers in ways that could hurt them.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by lucideer on Monday October 16, 2023 @12:22PM (#37902129)
> EPA regulation is not going to reduce wildfires.

Not in the US so I'm perhaps missing some context related to which bodies are responsible for which regulation but... why can't EPA regulation reduce wildfires?

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by toast0 on Monday October 16, 2023 @12:31PM (#37902302)
EPA can't sue the forest and demand it stop emiting pollution through wildfires. Mother nature doesn't respond to court summons.

Conceivably, the EPA could demand changes in forest stewardship, but a lot of the wildfires are already in national forest land, so the nation forest service would be a more appropriate agency.

EPA could perhaps help issue guidelines and emission allowances for prescriptive burns that should probabalistically reduce wildfire emissions, but will absolutely have emissions during the burns.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by lucideer on Monday October 16, 2023 @01:05PM (#37902869)
That doesn't seem required nor proposed.

The issue highlighted in the article seems to be with the broad classification of all wildfires by the EPA as “natural” or “uncontrollable” events - it's pretty clear that this isn't the reality for the majority of recent wildfires. Though wildfires are historically a natural & necessary occurrence, manmade wildfires are a well-documented occurrence & something the EPA seems well-positioned to take action on.

Unless, that is, I as an ignorant non-US observer am unaware of some other regulatory body that is already (or is better suited to) regulating human contribution to wildfire frequency.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by jjk166 on Monday October 16, 2023 @03:40PM (#37905247)
Wildfires are handled by the US Department of the Interior. However they're not really something that can be regulated. Intentionally starting a wildfire is just arson, which would be handled by either local law enforcement or the FBI depending on how big the fires got. But the overwhelming majority of wildfires are unintentional - someone left a campfire unattended, someone didn't properly put out a cigarette, an electrical line went down, etc.

But from an emissions standpoint, the proximate cause of a wildfire is irrelevant. The fact is that a wildfire's emissions are not due to industrial pollution, which is what the EPA regulates.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by lucideer on Monday October 16, 2023 @07:15PM (#37907989)
> they're not really something that can be regulated.

They can be and are regulated, often by controlled burn bans. Climate change isn't the sole human cause of uncontrolled wildfires, nor do they need to be intentional to be suggested to (proximate) human decisions.

Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by Moomoomoo309 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:29AM (#37913345)
Big agree here with a ban on controlled burns, with one caveat: Pine barrens need controlled burns to continue to exist, and should be exempt from that ban.
Re:A little-known pollution rule keeps the air dirty for mil... by landemva on Monday October 16, 2023 @08:20PM (#37908527)
> EPA can't sue the forest ...

> Mother nature doesn't respond to court summons...

Conceivably, the EPA could demand changes in forest ownership. When government owns things it does whatever. Some of the worst pollution was from socialst countries without meaningful private property.