News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by throwaway4good on Friday October 06, 2023 @03:22AM (#37788026)
China is very high on the economic freedom scale (setting up a business, taxation etc.); probably much higher than the US or Europe.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by FredPret on Friday October 06, 2023 @03:27AM (#37788069)
Sure, so economically free, besides the communism part
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Friday October 06, 2023 @03:52AM (#37788191)
China is a typical state capitalist country.

You don't have the state looking after the wellfares of individuals, you are on your own all the time. $0 handouts during covid pandemic is the best example. You don't have unions stopping businesses and asking better pay & less working hours for its members.

Talking about communism, the US is getting there fast. Look at its current union movement, with both 2024 US presidential election candidates openly supporting those unions, man, it is communism, it is cancer.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by otikik on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:14AM (#37788290)
If you want to make the point that the US is communist, unions are not a great example - they are few and very weak, with a couple exceptions (Police Unions). The US is way more similar to communism in the way the ultrarich accumulate benefits but socialize loses. Another big example is the military, which is essentially a socialist organization.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:50AM (#37788432)
> If you want to make the point that the US is communist, unions are not a great example - they are few and very weak

wait a second. unions in the US are weak? what a huge joke! UAW stopped the production of US made cars, asking 40% wage increase. Yet that is weak?

let me tell you what is "weak" unions - in China, which implements state capitalism, unions represent the interests of the management & business owners, not workers & union members. Permanent contract is pretty much unheard of for labour workers, you won't get paid for working over time, 4 days per week communist style working hours is like 100 years away, you'd be luck if you don't need to work 7 days a week. you still pay your union fees, but you won't get anything from them, strike gets you into jail and your union bosses are going to kick your ass even before the arrival of police.

you got brainwashed by your "free" media. you've never ever experienced the brutal state capitalism, as you live in your lovely western communist society.

here in Shanghai, the economic capital of this state capitalist country called China -

* you don't get treated for medical conditions if you don't pay all those treatments in advance. pay your bill late kind of communist arrangement doesn't exist here.

* if you are a labour worker, you need to save like 500 years worth of your before tax income to buy a shitty & tiny apartment, that is right, you need to be start saving money before the independence of the communist US.

* can't afford to buy? no worries, just rent, 3 months rent plus 1 month bond and 1 month rent equivalent agent fee is the typical condition here. factor in the cost to move, you pretty much need 6 months rent worth of money to afford to rent.

* social housing you ask - people are going to laugh at you, that hasn't been invented yet. the state is the biggest land owner, residential land is auction to developers to build residential properties, why would any sane people working for the state to build social housing to undermine one of the largest income streams of the state?

* can't afford to rent and there is no social housing? well, homeless is not an option as that deteriorate the quality of investment environment of your city. you will be dealt with like a piece of trash.

angry about all these? well, they promote a few poster boys every year who managed to rise from the very bottom, they tell you something you probably heard it many times already - it is all about personal choices.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by smcl on Friday October 06, 2023 @05:11AM (#37788586)
The UAW striking, and politicians showing support for unions is nothing new and doesn't suggest the USA is suddenly careening towards communism. You're either incredibly naive or have consumed some hysterical far-right news if you believe this.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Friday October 06, 2023 @09:33AM (#37790568)
When compared to China, the US is getting more and more like a communist country while China is getting more and more into state capitalism.

There are facts you just can't deny at all -

* far less income inequality in the US. A US software engineer working for Google/Apple/Amazon probably makes 3-5x more than a typical unskilled US worker, in China, a Chinese software engineer working for Alibaba/Tencent/Huawei can easily make 30-50x wage of a typical unskilled Chinese worker.

* no union movements in China, they even banned The Internationale. the US is seeing wide spread strikes in many key sectors. this is eye opening for many Chinese.

* no covid handouts in China, you are always on your own. numerous communist style handouts in the US during covid, that caused extremely high inflation and the current demand for wage increases & strikes.

* free COVID-19 medicine in the US, full price out of your own pocket here in China. I paid two packs of Paxlovid back in Feb, cost me $600 USD and it was like winning the lottery to be able to buy them online, I had to try multiple time a day for two weeks, it sold out within seconds each time.

* far more social welfares in the US, tons of real public hospitals & social housing. here in China, if you don't have enough money, you won't get shocked by your medical bill because you will never be tested or treated in the first place. you are always on your own. by the US standard, there is 0 public hospital in China, no hospital is fully or even half government funded, all those so called Chinese public hospitals have to source their fundings on their own.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by smcl on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:14AM (#37799972)
I suggest you look up what "communism" actually is - it's much more than "the government slightly helps you sometimes"
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by otikik on Friday October 06, 2023 @06:55AM (#37789122)
Weakness is a comparative thing. I’m European. Compared to Europe, American unions barely register. You gave an example where one union did something big one in the US once. Still small and weak compared to Europe. Unions can stop the economy of whole countries for 2 weeks if they get really pissed. Often with support from the rest of the population.

I’m not trying to downplay how things are in China by any means, and I believe that the “brainwashing” accusation wasn’t merited. It’s a “elephant vs dog vs ant” situation.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by bjornsing on Friday October 06, 2023 @07:42AM (#37789409)
So? The parent is Chinese. Their point is that Chinese unions are much weaker than US ones. What does Europe have to do with that?
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by otikik on Friday October 06, 2023 @09:27AM (#37790520)
I started my first comment with "If you want to make the point that the US is communist", implying that that was what I was addressing. I think that the argument still holds. That is independent on how comparatively worse or better things are in China. Because we can look at the US in isolation and still find better examples.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Friday October 06, 2023 @03:47AM (#37788172)
That is not true. You are only allowed to setup businesses that are considered as in non-key sectors. Try setting a private gas station, or an ISP. Good lucky for that. The most recent example is the private tutor business, setting a private tutor business helping kids to do better in their maths exams can get you into big big trouble with the state.

We are talking about an economy that didn't allow people to freely trade salt less than 10 years ago.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by throwaway4good on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:29AM (#37788351)
Around here setting up a sausage stand is tightly regulated.

Granted. I don't know of any remotely reasonable (non-politicized) comparable study of economic freedom in China; my assessment is from talking to people (expats, entrepreneurs etc.) and just looking at what was going on.

I remember sitting at a restaurant in a small village and watching a local drone company doing testing on the parking lot. 4 engineers and a drone the size of a small car.

Just no way that would be allowed in anywhere in Europe.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by FredPret on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:33AM (#37788369)
Europe isn't a bastion of economic freedom - a previous commenter described an absolutely egregious amount of government overreach pertaining taxes.
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:57AM (#37788469)
> Around here setting up a sausage stand is tightly regulated.

Around here, setting up a sausage stand requires special approval from the Prime Minister of the People's Republic of China. That is the exact special & emergency arrangement they put forward during COVID - people were allowed to setup such stands in selected areas during weekends to boost economy during COVID.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by angra_mainyu on Friday October 06, 2023 @11:21AM (#37791988)
What about before COVID?
Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by tw1984 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:10AM (#37799964)
There is a dedicated government department tasked for cracking down all those street vendors/stands, it called the urban management department. It is the department that has the lowest public approval rating in China with its staff regularly engage in brutal violence against those trying to setup a stand on the streets to make a living.

Their (stupid) logic is simple - such stands / street food vendors degrade the overall investment potentials, as no one wants their multi billion investment project to be surrounded by thousands of street food vendors.

welcome to state capitalism.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by spacebanana7 on Friday October 06, 2023 @03:59AM (#37788224)
China is a has a very statist economic system with limited economic freedom for consumers.

To list a few examples - urban property cannot be owned outright by any non-state entity, Chinese citizens are heavily restricted from investing overseas, and foreign investment/media consumption is also limited.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by somat on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:37AM (#37788381)
A question on the ownership of property in china and how it relates to the "nail" houses often seen in pictures.

While I am sure real property ownership is weaker in china, The propaganda is I assume based on a exaggerated version of the truth. I also have never seen a public works project held up so dramatically by a single reluctant owner. Usually the government will claim eminent domain and poof, there go all your so called real property ownership rights, up in smoke.

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by spacebanana7 on Friday October 06, 2023 @05:30AM (#37788682)
My concern with Chinese property rights is the nature of the land use right rather than the respect those rights receive for from the government.

For example instead of buying a house in China, people obtain residential land use rights from the local authority for a period of up to 70 years [1]. AFAIK this translates to a 70 year leasehold contract in British, which isn't that much. It's very possible, in theory, to 'purchase' a house in China and have be unable to live in it within your lifetime.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_law_in_China

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by raverbashing on Friday October 06, 2023 @05:12AM (#37788587)
This is easily proved wrong

China is in position 154 https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

"Oh but China, oh but Europe, oh blah blah blah" try actually establishing a company on the lower bottoms of the rank

Re:Chinese Netizen Fined over 1M Yuan for Using VPN by angra_mainyu on Friday October 06, 2023 @11:27AM (#37792073)
https://www.networkideas.org/news-analysis/2005/06/index-of-...

Using the Heritage Foundation's ranking is quite misleading.