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Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by wkat4242 on Sunday October 01, 2023 @12:34AM (#37722586)
> Where consumerism is high, procreation is low, as children and parenthood are antithetical to the ethos of consumption. This ethos infects and corrupts every domain of the culture and conspires against families by creating a mutually enabling thicket of disincentives, consumerizing and commoditizing everything, including sexual intercourse and sexual relations, in general. Contraception and sterile "sex" are paradigmatic of consumerism.

I have to disagree here. Having more money to spend on consumer items is not the only reason to not want kids.

For me it's not about money but about time. I don't want to waste time raising kids that I could have used pursuing interesting opportunities to enrich myself. Which are usually not things that make me financially richer either. And also, I just don't want them. There is no attraction to fatherhood for me.

But I would not call myself consumerist at all. I don't buy that much stuff, don't have a car, only a $100 second-hand TV, buy a new phone once every 4 years or so... But I do have a really interesting life. I couldn't do without that.

And once people become parents their "sex" life becomes pretty much null and void too.

There is definitely a correlation between high standards of living and smaller families yes. But I don't think this is because people want to spend more. It's just that they don't really need a big family for "pension" reasons, don't usually care about religious directives anymore (think the big catholic labourer families of old) and want their life to be more than about having kids. Women don't just want to be a baby machine anymore.

And I think it's good. For environmental reasons our population should be stable, not growing rapidly. 2 children per couple is perfect.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by keiferski on Sunday October 01, 2023 @02:28AM (#37723291)
Don’t think of consumerism as consumer products. Think of it as “consumption”, rather than creation. A focus on consuming and experiencing things in the world, not building them - of which a family with children is a prime example.
Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by wkat4242 on Sunday October 01, 2023 @02:31AM (#37723302)
But I build a lot. Most of my hobbies involve creativity and making of things like electronics and 3D printing.

I don't think having a family would be as valuable even.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by keiferski on Sunday October 01, 2023 @02:33AM (#37723315)
Well I don’t want to be too harsh, but from my point of view, the idea that your hobbies are more important than the creation of life is a very shallow consumeristic one. It’s a very limited, self-focused way of being in the world.

That’s not even mentioning the fact that you can share your hobbies with your children.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by wkat4242 on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:31AM (#37723598)
I just don't think creating life is that special :) or necessary. There's already too many humans in this world. And I don't view it as something sacred.

In fact if I'd want a child I'd adopt one and give them a better life. I think it's better to lift an orphan out of poverty than to reproduce myself.

But I'm just not interested in either.

None of my friends who have kids have done this out of a sense of community or purpose though. It was a choice driven by their own desire, just as selfish as my own reasons not to have any.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by anthonypasq on Monday October 02, 2023 @11:15AM (#37739235)
> There's already too many humans in this world.

what does this actually mean? people say this but i dont understand it.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by satvikpendem on Sunday October 01, 2023 @04:15AM (#37723866)
Why is a hobby shallow but the creation of life deep? Surely that depends on the hobby as well. Having a child can be seen, in one aspect, as a very expensive and time consuming hobby.

What is so special about creating life, anyway?

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by legutierr on Sunday October 01, 2023 @12:06PM (#37727291)
Everything humans create depends on humanity existing, and humanity ceases to be without children.

Human life is a prerequisite for everything humans create.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by satvikpendem on Sunday October 01, 2023 @12:15PM (#37727414)
It's not as if humans will go extinct. The UN predicts we will peak at 10 billion in 2100 and stabilize at 5 billion overall afterwards. When we were last at 5 billion, it was 1987, so it's not like we didn't build human societies before then. Those who want kids will have them and those who don't will not.
Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by tomp on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:13AM (#37723510)
> I learn new things every day, constantly move my horizons. I couldn't do that if I were tied down with a family.

Try explaining these concepts to children. Now that’s a challenge!

> And once people become parents their sex life becomes pretty much null and void too.

I can guarantee that’s not true for everyone. Of course, maybe even some single couples get bored of having sex, and maybe even single men see their libido drop with age!

> For environmental reasons our population should be stable, not growing rapidly.

That’s a common trope pushed by degrowth activists like Greenpeace, but not actually true. Technology gives us means to so more with less, so we are far from the limits of even what Earth can support, let alone our solar system.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by wkat4242 on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:36AM (#37723633)
> Try explaining these concepts to children. Now that’s a challenge!

Could be but I don't want to :) even in work I don't have the patience for training others because it slows me down.

> I can guarantee that’s not true for everyone. Of course, maybe even some single couples get bored of having sex, and maybe even single men see their libido drop with age!

Of course it's not the case for everyone but on average it is for sure. All my friends say they simply don't have enough time or opportunity. Let alone doing more wild stuff like going to sensuality resorts or swinger clubs. It becomes more of a standard up/down "let's get this over with before the kid wakes up" kinda thing.

> Technology gives us means to so more with less, so we are far from the limits of even what Earth can support, let alone our solar system.

Well it hasn't actually delivered that. Right now we're doing more with much more.

Look at the ocean full of plastic, the ever rising oil use. The climate crisis.

If technology can give us those means it should really start doing so pretty soon before we really screw the world beyond repair.

Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by michaelhoney on Sunday October 01, 2023 @05:32AM (#37724266)
No, we’re fucking up the planet pretty badly, and our impact is (consumption x population).
Re:Don't worry about global population collapse by sokoloff on Sunday October 01, 2023 @05:36AM (#37724283)
Technology may give us those means, but we seem prone to use most of those advances to do much more, reducing or even reversing the overall savings.