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Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by silenced_trope on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:40PM (#37698684)
> It’s not that it’s taboo or no one cares, it’s that we’re weary of the motivations of people bringing it up and how they frame this history.

The same thing is true in the United States and Canada of Native Americans.

Nobody brings it up of course but tribes extinguishing other tribes completely was a fact of life. It isn't unique to Europeans.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by soperj on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:45PM (#37698723)
In South America a lot of tribes were just absorbed without warfare, they joined together because it made financial sense. The Inca were well known for it.
Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by arcticbull on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:54PM (#37698795)
There sure was a lot of ritual human sacrifice for being a peaceful peoples. Specifically child sacrifice in the case of the Incas. [1] And the Aztecs, boy oh boy lol

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacocha

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by gatlin on Friday September 29, 2023 @07:46AM (#37702368)
Mayans would go to war because they hadn't had one in a while according to my guide at Mayapan. At their peak Aztecs were sacrificing 80k+ people a year, usually war prisoners. This behavior is how the conquistadors were able to rally their enemies and topple them.
Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by Swizec on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:50PM (#37698757)
Oh worse than not being unique to Europeans, still happening today.

Here’s an example from Darfur in June this year: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/africa/darfur-sudan-geneina-m...

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by krapp on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:50PM (#37698765)
What native tribes did to one another was still nothing compared to the scale of what Europeans did to them.

And one doesn't justify the other. If I break into your house, kill your family and steal everything not nailed down, including your youngest kid who I raise as my own, and the bones of your dead aunt that I put in a window display, I can't justify that by pointing out that you got into a fight with a kid in high school one time and once stole a pair of sunglasses from the Wal-Mart.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by pneumic on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:02PM (#37698852)
This analogy is naïve. There is plenty of evidence of extermination behavior among early native Americans. In more recent times, the Anasazi were especially feared by their neighbors for the horrors they'd inflict.
Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by krapp on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:17PM (#37698923)
Did the Anasazi exterminate nearly everyone on an entire continent, then march the remainder into reservations where it remained illegal for them to openly practice their religion until 40 years ago, and did they kidnap people's children and send them to boarding schools to be indoctrinated against their own culture, abuse and torture them, and bury them in mass graves?

No. It's not even in the same ballpark.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by dools on Thursday September 28, 2023 @10:57PM (#37698815)
I think what IS unique to Europeans is:

1) Colonised the globe

2) Started a system of global resource extraction and slavery

3) Built an entire system of economic development based on this extraction which vastly enriched said Europeans and disadvantaged the colonised peoples

4) Deliberately nobbled attempts by those from which the wealth is being extracted to share in the economic gains through shady business, military and political tactics

5) Refusal to acknowledge the role of that extraction in their continued success (those [INSERT PEJORATIVE NAME FOR THE COLONISED HERE] just need to do better!)

I mean, I don't know if it's unique in all history but it's certainly unique when comparing local conflict pre-colonisation with European colonisation.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by zizee on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:10PM (#37698892)
What you have described doesn't sound that unique to Europeans. The article this discussion was spawned from describes behaviour by Maori against the Moriori that mirrors most of your described points.

I would argue that throughout history, people have been acting like shits to each other, regardless of their point of origin, race, religion, or culture. We're just finally enlightened enough to be examining this behaviour through a critical eye.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by Eggsellence on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:44PM (#37699048)
This is not unique to Europeans to the extent that the suggestion is borderline racist.

It might be more accurate to say that every people engage(d) in this nature to the extent that they are capable, and that, in relatively modern recorded history, Europeans have proven themselves to be by far the most capable in that regard.

So capable that they are perhaps the first people ever to police themselves in moderation of this behaviour, often explicitly and deliberately acting in the interests of alien people to their own detriment. That is unique.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by defrost on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:57PM (#37699118)
> It might be more accurate to say that every people engage(d) in this nature to the extent that they are capable

Questionable that every people did this, eg:

Aboriginal mitogenomes reveal 50,000 years of regionalism in Australia

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21416

strongly suggests that Australia was first settled by people spreading out, finding an area that suited them, and settling down such that the most recent indigenous DNA in various areas matches (bar evolution) the earliest DNA in those areas (ie no waves of replacement).

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by Eggsellence on Friday September 29, 2023 @02:34AM (#37700027)
How certain can we be that those groups hadn't simply reached the limits of their capacity for expansion?

Aboriginal Australians have one of the lowest average IQs of any ethnic group on earth, they had little to no concept of agriculture or weaponry, and existed in relatively small disjointed tribes rife with infighting and appalling violence in an unforgiving climate.

Were these people capable of organising, planning, equipping, strategising, and executing an assault on their neighbours? Would it have even been worth it - what would they gain? Even if capable, they may have been wisely unwilling.

I think it's incredibly naive to think that a capable tribe of Aboriginal Australians would have left their defenceless neighbours in peace if they stood in the way of valuable resources. Or that this didn't indeed occur countless times in relatively small skirmishes.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by user982 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:48PM (#37699066)
> So capable that they are perhaps the first people ever to police themselves in moderation of this behaviour, often explicitly and deliberately acting in the interests of alien people to their own detriment. That is unique.

Posting that in a thread about the Moriori is rich.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by seoulmetro on Friday September 29, 2023 @01:06AM (#37699485)
None of these are European...

Europeans were the first to do it across continents, sure? But are you going to blame the culture of the first persons to use electricity to eliminate jobs of manual labour? Or is that just technology paving a way?

Your comment has nothing to do with Europeans specifically.

Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by the_third_wave on Monday October 02, 2023 @03:27PM (#37743186)
What is unique to Europeans and their descendants is to lambast their own history and portray themselves as uniquely evil. I am no aware of any other culture which has done the same, possibly/probably because cultures which show this behaviour end up extinct.
Re:The Māori Genocide of the Moriori by gatlin on Friday September 29, 2023 @07:41AM (#37702279)
Whoever is the second-to-last foreign colonizer is forever to be considered a victim not responsible for any similar crimes committed on their part. This shouldn't be a reason to not care at all about the Maori, or other indigenous groups. Rather, perhaps there are others we should give attention and money to besides the most politically expedient groups.