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Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by nerdponx on Friday September 22, 2023 @08:59AM (#37611423)
Of course they do. Toyota inserts itself between me and my need to go places.
Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by pixl97 on Friday September 22, 2023 @09:30AM (#37611797)
In this case transportation grift is a trillion dollar problem in the US, but maybe slightly different than you're saying. A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it. Our shops are box islands in multi acre oceans of black asphalt. Vast arteries of concrete separate people from where they live to where they buy. So, yea I would say there is plenty of grift at different levels.
Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by nerdponx on Friday September 22, 2023 @02:59PM (#37616213)
I think we have a different interpretation of "between".

I just meant that they see a costly thing that people do, and they do something to reduce that cost. That basically is what all companies do.

I believe that's what GP meant as well, but apparently everyone else interpreted it differently.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by rewmie on Saturday September 23, 2023 @05:44AM (#37621852)
> A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it.

No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure.

Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make.

In the US it's not abnormal to express the length of even mundane car trips in how many hours you spend driving. That's definitely not a halmark of a walkable region.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by JohnFen on Monday September 25, 2023 @01:44PM (#37647756)
> No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure.

> Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make.

Neither of these things are true everywhere in the US. There are many cities where walking and biking are common forms of transportation. But there are certainly many places where the infrastructure appears to be actively designed to kill pedestrians and bicyclist as well.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by ta8645 on Friday September 22, 2023 @10:07AM (#37612248)
People went places before cars were invented, you can too. Toyota offers you a better way, if you can afford to avail yourself of their offer -- that's all.
Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by drekk on Friday September 22, 2023 @01:37PM (#37615032)
People went places before cars were invented, and then General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it. Now car companies are offering not "a better way" but "the only real way" unless you want to get hit by a suburbanite driving a Ford F-150 while sitting in an unprotected bike lane.

I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor. There was a concerted effort to redesign Americana around cars that was not replicated globally, and you see the consequences of it play out in real time.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by ta8645 on Friday September 22, 2023 @02:11PM (#37615527)
> I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor.

It's never been a free market. There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse.

I'm really tired of people acting like the only thing standing in the way of utopia, is capitalism.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by astrange on Friday September 22, 2023 @09:14PM (#37619764)
> There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse.

I think you're thinking of Skyrim and not the actual world, but there are certainly historical periods that were famously bandit-free even in antiquity like the Mongol Empire.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by gumby on Friday September 22, 2023 @04:45PM (#37617541)
> General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it

I know this story and for a long time believed it. But it appears that developers building new towns (urban expansion) in the mid 20th century put in streetcars to get people to move in (connected to city networks etc) and ran them at a loss. As the new town filled up and the developers went on to the next one, the streetcars became the uneconomic responsibility of the town.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by astrange on Friday September 22, 2023 @09:13PM (#37619759)
The cities put price caps on streetcars because they thought it would make it cheaper, which ended up bankrupting them, and then more recently cities have infinite amounts of pro-car policies like parking minimums that make it unreasonable to use any other kind of transport.

Funny enough, this is being repeated in modern times because a lot of transit activists want to force all transit to be free and instead be funded by theoretical rich peoples' taxes.

Re:The Age of the Grift Shift by nerdponx on Friday September 22, 2023 @03:10PM (#37616350)
That's what I meant by "between" in this case. Apparently other people interpreted it differently.