> Actual groups outside of the house (e.g. hack spaces) are too far away or have awkward hours.

If this is actually the case, most of the replies you got are going to be hard because they are about finding a group that is ostensibly not a social group (sports league, gym, &c.). FWIW, this would also be my recommendation.

If your kids are both school aged, you might need to put significant effort into rearranging your life around something that has awkward hours. Make sure your spouse is on board (e.g. if they are feeling equally socially distanced, rearranging things for just you would make them rightfully jealous), and find something that you can make happen.

I remember emerging from the blur of having toddlers and realizing I didn't spend time with anyone. I joined a gym and am part of a bi-monthly TTRPG group. It's made a difference.

Do CrossFit, or some kind of group physical activity (martial arts, Brazilian judo, archery, whatever.) Try a few different places, since each has their own vibe. Best part is that if nothing else works, at least you'll get exercise.

I'll second this one, especially BJJ, BJJ is an activity where you get very close with people very quickly. I'd recommened though if you are looking for somewhere just to have fun and roll around to look first for a BJJ specific gym and avoid the MMA places as they tend to be a little more competitive.

IDK the first bjj place I tried was so gross and intense, literally hazing-type behavior with new people. My current MMA gym has incredibly serious competitors but also grandad brown belts, 30-something hobbyists, and literally children. You can get rocked if you're specifically looking for that but it's very very chill if you're not.

I don't think either of these is representative, but I've come to think no martial arts school is representative. You just got to look around and see what you find.

For sure some BJJ gyms are just as toxic as the OP says MMA gyms are. Some are very heavily focused on competition and train in a specific way likely based on cultural issues imported from Brazil. I think the key is to try multiple gyms (regardless of sport) because there's always a chance the culture at one will be toxic. I love that in my gym you also have the 70 year old brown belt who will smoothly choke you out with very little physical effort or discomfort to the 280lb serious competitor who will also choke you with very little physical effort or discomfort but will also match intensity if you're wanting to go harder. Most of the folks seem to do a very good job of matching intensity. The guys who want to roll hard and fast as they are preparing for a tournament have all of those opportunities, but they also realize they are in a gym with a bunch of filthy casuals like me. I've never felt in danger because folks want to go all out. Brand new white belts are the most dangerous folks in the gym.

I did decide to try to keep up with my training by dropping into a class while traveling for business. That's where I got a bruised rib and had trouble breathing for a couple weeks because apparently there's some ego thing involved in putting visitors from other gyms in their place. I just stick with the place I know has good respectful folks now.

The BJJ gyms near me (I live in OC, it's practically the BJJ Mecca -- one of my neighbors is a head professor at the Gracie HQ in Irvine) just aren't that great for busy parents. Classes are at absolutely shit times if you need to help with your kids on either end of the day... 7am or 7pm. If you work and can't get away during the day, you're SOL.

I haven't been to a BJJ gym since before the pandemic because the one place with night classes (9pm) shut down and the professor left the state for economic reasons.

I second martial arts, particularly BJJ (though I haven't tried any others). Generally very chill people of all walks of life. And this might sound weird, but I do believe the close physical contact is both good for mental health and helps overcome social anxiety.

The martial arts closeness is definitely an interesting one, I think it's under recognized/discussed. A common beginner judo exercise is to have students aggressively jump-chestbump each other. It's a physical warmup but the main purpose is to break down the sense of personal space we keep in normal life. More advanced students don't generally do it, having learned to context switch into "grappling mode" at will.

I remember having one completely rough class where all got just worked, and during a break sitting in literally a pile of other students leaning back to back, helping each other rub out bruises, tape fingers etc and thinking "is this weird? this is a lot of intimacy, I barely know some of these people." There aren't many social contexts that have that level of physical interaction at all.

It can be strengthening or healing for sure. Martial arts schools are also a major venue for interpersonal abuses of all kinds. The required intimacy and the culture of deference to authority are perfect for it. Everywhere I've trained you have people who left other schools but you only hear ominous rumors of why.

Yeah it feels odd at first for sure. But like any other mammal, one of our social instincts is play fighting. You see it in kids with their roughhousing and horseplay, but as we get older it becomes less and less socially acceptable in most contexts. Socializing becomes less about having fun and bonding with people and more about observing unspoken rules and demonstrating that you know how to behave properly. There's nothing wrong with the latter, but you can't create genuine connections without the former. I believe this is why many people have the sense that their work friends aren't "real" and will fade away when they move on to their next job.

The abuse thing is certainly an issue, unfortunately. The "coach waiting until student turns 18" scenario is apparently so common in BJJ that it's practically a meme at this point, though I've been fortunate enough to go to a school where it hasn't happened, as far as I'm aware.

Can recommend contemporary dance. The people are about as different from the I.T. crowd as you can imagine, and it addresses the chronic sense of disembodiedness that I.T. can engender. You can also approach it intellectually via (say) embodied cognition.

Join a rec league in the sport of your choice, or find a pickup game.

Become a regular at a church, or if that's not your style, at a bar. (Drink responsibly, if you go that way.) Or even just a gym.

Find a way to meet some people in real life, not online. If you try one way for a bit and it doesn't work, try another. Keep trying, because you really need this.

Lawn care and gardening.

What's that? I can't hear you over the shop vac

It obviously depends a lot on where you live, how old your kids are and what you are interested in, but here's some places I've made connections since moving from NYC to the 'burbs:

- Religious organization - Parents of kids in our children' school (this is a big one.) - My wife making connections around town and then us taking a shot at having dinner w the couple. - Hanging out at the firehouse - I considered joining as a volunteer before we had our 2nd kid.

Also.. these are kinda suspicious statements " I can't relate to my neighbours" or "due to age or intellect, I can't relate to." That just sounds like you've defined someone who struggles to relate and isn't interested in most people - which isn't a fruitful starting point for getting to know them well enough to discover what makes them interesting.

The "suspicious statements" were actually a cover for explaining in depth.

I'm (reasonably) well paid and that doesn't go down well with some people, which I've seen first hand and accused of lording it over (e.g. explaining some gardening I was doing and accused of being posh, or using proper English, accused of being a snob and looking down my nose - nothing I'd said in conversation mentioned anything remotely suggestive of this - nor would they tell me why they said this). The aggression is to my mind unwarranted (i.e. why would I go out of my way to alienate a potential friend) and honestly I tried to avoid those situations.

The age part isn't so much of a problem, but I tried to join a HAM radio group for help with a SDR as a possible new hobby, mainly because it was local and one of the only tech focused groups nearby.

After the initial welcomes, nobody actually wanted to speak much to me although I would ask radio questions, and occasionally get half answers it seemed to be a close knit group of men in their late 50s/ early 60s using radio call signs and phrases when online (which being radio and having meetups, isn't actually that much). I suppose I could have invested in more equipment and a beginner's licence and got on the local radio but it just didn't seem worth it.

So yep, I can keep falling off this (kind of) bike and keep just getting back on, but I was hoping to try other more successful options.

> ...what's left to do?

?? Sports

There's obviously a question of interest, skill, time. Still, there are sports choices out there, pickup games, leagues etc.

Does not guarantee finding a friendship but at least provides a context.

You could join a square dancing group.

> So what's left to do?

You might be a step further on a path to enlightenment.

What is left to do, after all?

Maybe it's just that we cannot expect other people to make us happy, or to be happy just by being around others doing... something...

Or, you can look at actuarial tables, realize that you have an aggressively finite amount of time on this Earth, and take proactive steps to live each day like it's one of your last 16,739 (assuming you just turned 30)

Examine what's preventing you from relating to your neighbors. In the past, people were friends with people older and younger than them and from different social classes. Millennials seem to have completely lost those skills which severely limits who they interact with.

We get on reasonably well with one neighbour, who we often discuss house maintenance but whenever I've offered to help fix something in their house, they only want advice. Strangely this person will stop and have full on conversations for 30+ mins in the street with me, but nothing comes of it aside from catching up on local news. At the back of my mind I do wonder if not being more social is something to do with one of my kids being mentally disabled and somehow that's awkward or intimidating for them (e.g. they might not know how to react, or might think I'd like them to babysit etc). Maybe this will change and improve over time.

ask yourself: why do you live where you are?

figure out the benefits vs the drawbacks (such as not finding friends)

i was in this situation, and i decided to move. you don't need to move, but being aware of why you made that choice, makes the downsides easier to bear, and also opens up new ideas how to approach the situation.

after more than 10 years in china, we moved to a small city where i had no friends, and finding friends was difficult. there were other benefits of living there, and so i reconnected with old (and new) friends from back home who, thanks to covid had started online meetings. you could say, i made lemonade out of lemons.

on online meetings, keep searching, there are many more groups out there, and not all of them are like the ones you experienced.

i realize that online meetings are no substitute for meeting face to face, but consider this: when i develop a good relationship with someone in person, (even just a good vibe after a single meeting) then this carries over into an online connection. so if you can't find local friends, find friends online that have a chance to meet face to face at least once in a while. (this should also help with avoiding those weird groups you seem to have found)

for example that hackerspace may be to far away for a regular visit, but maybe it is possible to visit once every few months? check if they have an online community. join that, get to know people online, then meet them in person once, and then continue to stay in touch online.

i am actually not big on online meetings myself. from the sound of it, you probably aren't either. but if you are selective, it's better than nothing.

Spend your daylight free time hours outside gardening and playing with your kids and being a part of their day and get to know your neighbors. All of 'em. You'll be surprised how soon you'll have no time without friends all around you.

Source: me

volunteering for some charity, there are so many of them and very different types of people around