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Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by lr4444lr on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @08:47PM (#37316203)
> I personally don't think the founding fathers of the US understood the future gullibility of their citizens.

They absolutely did. When only white, male, decently educated property owners could vote, they had decent reassurance that a constitutional republic with state-specific voter management could work.

I think they'd be horrified to see that today we don't even demand a basic proof of civics education. And I hate that Ramaswamy made that suggestion in such an embarrassing, conversation-poisoning way.

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by plagiarist on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @08:54PM (#37316268)
We need score voting. Being able to express a preference for a third candidate without danger of flipping the election would fix quite a bit. Unfortunately doing so currently is more useless than using the ballot as toilet paper.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by TedGetschman on Thursday August 31, 2023 @03:36AM (#37333716)
Actually, implementing score voting (or approval or STAR or Majority Judgement) should incentivize all the candidates to move toward the majority opinion. The problem isn't the candidates, it is what platforms the current system pushes them to adopt. If we changed to any of these MaxVoting methods today, you would see majority opinion platforms emerge as the lead platforms within a year.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by bb88 on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @10:38PM (#37317008)
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think the founding fathers could not anticipate the world we have today.

The problem of course being that intelligence tests were used in the 60's to deny voting rights. But the founding fathers were okay with slavery, so would they have been okay with that for that purpose?

Originalism has a purpose I think, but, we've changed so much since then...

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by chonkerz on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @02:31AM (#37318417)
The founding fathers would be horrified that we let the slaves and women vote. We shouldn't put too much stock in what they think.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by refurb on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @04:21AM (#37319089)
Wow, I take it you haven’t read much about them then? Because that statement is 100% false.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by plagiarist on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @06:59AM (#37320146)
Then why didn't they write the founding documents so that black people would be free and women and black people could vote? Would have saved us a lot of conflict over the years.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by refurb on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @07:50AM (#37320614)
Because, at the time, those beliefs were not universal, and a compromise was made as formation of the Republic would likely not have happened otherwise.

All the writings of the Founding Fathers are free and publicly available. You can learn all about it.

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by plagiarist on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @08:52AM (#37321273)
I like learning, link us to some quotes.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by refurb on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @10:49AM (#37322982)
Like any subject, I’d you want a respectable understanding it’s going to take some commitment to studying key documents, not just reading. A few quotes.

You don’t get smarter reading a few 140 characters tweets.

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by lostlogin on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @10:10AM (#37322415)
That might explain the document, but that doesn’t explain some of them keeping slaves themselves. Jefferson even went on to be president and while he did things to restrict the trade, he kept slaves and opposed some measure to restrict slavery (for reasons much as you describe).

https://www.crf-usa.org/images/t2t/pdf/HowShouldWeJudgeOurNa...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by CutieConstable on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @07:54AM (#37320661)
Because it would have tore up the social and economic fabric of significant parts of the US. The Founders were ahead of their time, but they still recognized that the vast majority of their countrymen were not.
Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by refurb on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @04:12AM (#37319032)
Are you saying white male educated property owners can’t be gullible? Have you been to Marin county?

The founding fathers certainly did assume there were gullible voters even among the select few who could vote.

Protections such as the Constitution itself (that old archaic document!), the Senate, supermajorities, an independent legislative, executive and judicial, etc, etc.

I laugh when people say “Congress is deadlocked! It needs to be fixed!”. No, it’s working exactly as intended.

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by zimpenfish on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @04:48AM (#37319244)
> I hate that Ramaswamy made that suggestion in such an embarrassing, conversation-poisoning way

Are you talking about his "failed Civics 101" gaffe re: historical ordering of Constitution and Revolution?

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by lr4444lr on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @12:24PM (#37324442)
https://twitter.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/16568127781773475...

I have been convinced for a long time that a test of basic civics and current events is a necessary (and possibly a sufficient) condition to fix most of the failings we see in representative democracy, but the Overton window is nowhere near it, and Ramaswamy is hardly the candidate I'd want proposing it.

The whole question and answer bank could even be given out online or in print cosr free - my bar is pretty low.

Re:ISPs Should Not Police Online Speech – No Matter How Awfu... by zimpenfish on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @12:38PM (#37324726)
> a test of basic civics and current events is a necessary (and possibly a sufficient) condition to fix most of the failings we see in representative democracy

Currently I would suggest that most of the failings in, e.g., US democracy are coming from the Republican party and I'm pretty sure most of them will have passed a test of basic civics, etc., yet are demonstrably bad at governance.