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Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @03:32PM (#37227498)
Accountability is a big part of leadership, though. The anecdote basically just says the VP used the wrong tool for accountability, not that "adults" shouldn't be held accountable.
Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by baconforce on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @06:20PM (#37229323)
I think what was missing here was lack of developer buy-in into the actual changes implemented, and making sure that they were reasonable and sustainable. Sounds to me like a blanket mandate was handed out without buy-in and also wasn't achievable, and the developers felt they had to work around it to get their real jobs done.
Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @06:28PM (#37229411)
I agree. At the very least, it seems like he didn't communicate the "why". It certainly wasn't "to make as many tests as possible". I suspect the developers knew that, which is why is also a little unprofessional on their part to treat it like that was the goal.
Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by nicoburns on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @07:31PM (#37229947)
I think the bigger problem here was inappropriate expectations: "two tests a day". That's not a reasonable way to increase test coverage. And so the developers quite reasonably just tried to minimise the time spent on it.
Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @08:35PM (#37230450)
>Number of unit tests isn't the best proxy for that goal…

However, I don’t think mindlessly creating tests is acting in good faith. It’s bordering on malicious compliance. I don’t they were thinking they can just knock out that metric so they can otherwise create better test coverage. (The OP conceded their coverage wasn’t good). Better employees would work to create a better understanding/goal.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by frollo on Thursday August 24, 2023 @04:04AM (#37246217)
Malicious compliance is exactly what you get when people think your target is stupid and you put some automated, non-negotiable measurement in place.

If I was a developer there, I'd totally started adding those generated tests. I have a job to do (ship products) and you put in some stupid requirements which actually interfere with it (since my time is limited I can either work on tests or my daily tasks like developing new features or fixing bugs), but we both know that if my primary job suffers, I'll pay for it. So the best solution, from my point of view, is the one that takes that requirement away and lets me go on actually working.

When we had a similar problem in a previous company, we just created an epic, assigned a couple of people to it and have them churning out tickets for specific improvements, like "Class X has a coverage of Y on this method, add tests for the missing execution branches", which were clear, non-generic and fully integrated in our flow. If anybody complained about our velocity or whatever, we could show them the full trail which lead us to choose to work on that ticket and how much we spent on it. The coverage issue got solved in less than a month.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Thursday August 24, 2023 @07:20PM (#37255807)
>If I was a developer there, I'd totally started adding those generated tests.

If I were a manager there, I probably wouldn’t hire you. You want people who are actively solving problems that matter, not just automatons beating their chest about how stupid everyone else is while they add to existing problems.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by esyir on Friday August 25, 2023 @03:18AM (#37259014)
If I was a dev there, I certainly wouldn't be approving those PRs either.

But if the devs at the org all (or even substantially) tend towards malicious compliance, that's a sign that something has gone wrong, relations-wise

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Friday August 25, 2023 @08:39AM (#37261030)
Agree. That’s what I mean when I say it’s more indicative of cultural issues.
Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by frollo on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:32AM (#37259420)
I you were a manager there and would approve that metric, no worries, I'd manage to fly it past you.

Any smart manager, having to deal with this kind of policy, would either push back or approve any way to game it and then get the work done. But I doubt that a company which allows this kind of BS can retain smart managers for more than a couple of months.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Friday August 25, 2023 @08:38AM (#37261020)
If you read any of my posts on this thread, it’s pretty obvious I don’t agree with the managers approach. But I also don’t agree that the devs are doing the right thing either.

It’s telling that you show such dichotomous and defensive thinking.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by frollo on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:14PM (#37276968)
So you disapprove of the decision, but would have enforced it in the most asinine way at the expense of actual productivity.

I just hope to never work with you and, especially, never use anything you helped building.

Re:Why KPIs are destroying businesses by bumby on Saturday August 26, 2023 @10:40PM (#37278988)
What made you draw that conclusion?

I made the point that the metric used (raw number of tests) is bad a bad way to enforce a good goal (higher code quality). I also made the point that metrics aren’t inherently bad, but they have to be chosen judiciously.

You seemed to take those two points and extrapolate an entirely different story and motives that, frankly, reads as a bit unhinged. So i also hope we don’t cross paths, because in safety critical code development where I come from where bad practices and toxic teammates can kill people.