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Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by IshKebab on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:45AM (#37207269)
Why don't the door handles just open the door?
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by jdiff on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:07AM (#37207414)
The windows have no frame. They slide up into the body of the car. If the door opens, the car needs to roll the window down a bit, then open the door. Without power, none of that happens. And if you use the emergency switch, the window showers you in shattered glass. Quite an elegant system.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by kwstas on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:29AM (#37207556)
Truly an inspired design if that is the case. Also the fact that the rear doors either do not have an emergency release or you have to lift the carpet to get to it is a marvel.

Donald Norman very early in his book "The Design of Everyday Things" discusses door design in modern buildings focusing on the lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers. These vehicles solve the problem just by removing the ability to open them.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by Nafnlaus on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:44AM (#37208171)
"Truly an inspired design if that is the case" - it's not the case.

"Rear doors either do not have an emergency release" - you mean like every coupé ever built? Since when were you protesting coupés? Rear doors not only do not have to have manual releases, but don't even have to exist.

"lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers" - the front manual release handle is not only not ambiguous, but is far more prominent than the electric release button, so most people with no experience with the car pull it instead of the button.

It's also, in all this, noting that modern cars have crash sequences. A crash is detected either (ideally) immediately before, or during its occurrence. A wide range of events are triggered, such as brakes, airbags, etc... and among the things triggered is *unlatching all the doors for easy egress* (the specific details depends on the door design - you want the door easy to open but not to pop out during the crash itself). Now, things can go wrong - the prime characteristic of a crash is that it mangles your car, and this can jam doors shut or cause other problems. This is why the Jaws of Life exists. But prepping the doors for egress is something that cars at least try to do during a crash.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by kwstas on Monday August 21, 2023 @08:19AM (#37208461)
> "Truly an inspired design if that is the case" - it's not the case.

I only read the article and some commenters here saying the windows break. The commenter above provides a reason for it that you say is not true. I stand by my comment, that if it is the case the design is "inspired"

>"Rear doors either do not have an emergency release" - you mean like every coupé ever built? Since when were you protesting coupés? Rear doors not only do not have to have manual releases, but don't even have to exist.

Don't most (all ?) of these cars have rear doors? What do coupés have to do with this? Convertibles don't have a roof but I would expect it in a sedan. If the doors exist there sould be a release that works in the case of this electrcal malfunction.

>"lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers" - the front manual release handle is not only not ambiguous, but is far more prominent than the electric release button, so most people with no experience with the car pull it instead of the button.

I expect this is the case for one model? The article has 2 cases of people that own these cars (a model y I think) and could not find the manual release without reading the manual or calling someone. Moreover the confusion you are describing (using the emergency rather than the regular release button) is exactly what ambiguous signifiers result in. This is a design failure as well.

I agree that unlatching the doors in a crash is a part of the crash sequence in many modern cars but these cases are not about crashes. Sudden power loss or an electrical malfunction should trigger the unlatching of doors and they seem to not. Jaws of life would not be a prudent way to get out of your car in these occasions.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by ilyt on Monday August 21, 2023 @09:19AM (#37209215)
Did you created this account just to post this dumbass comment ?

2-3 door cars are supposed to be left via moving the front seat. 4-5 door cars DON'T HAVE THAT FUNCTION, THAT'S WHY LACK OF EMERGENCY RELEASE ON THEM IS SO BAD.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by CogitoCogito on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:23AM (#37207513)
Talk about form over function.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by gorjusborg on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:35AM (#37207597)
But, the design is to die for.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by tmpX7dMeXU on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:50AM (#37207723)
There’s no car I’d rather die in.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by lawn on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:44AM (#37207670)
I wonder how well that works in the winter when it's really cold?

Obviously, not very well.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by dzhiurgis on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:48AM (#37207709)
Strange how Teslas aren't designed for either cold (many parts freeze) or hot climates (massive sunroof makes it unbearable)
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by PretzelPirate on Monday August 21, 2023 @10:31AM (#37210048)
My BMW Z4 had the same design. I'd go out in the morning and the door wouldn't open if ice had formed at the top of the window. I'd have to hold my hands on the ice and melt it until it was weak enough to scrape off.

It wasn't fun, but I did love that car.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by Turskarama on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:48AM (#37207711)
I had a 2001 Subaru Outback with frameless windows, they didn't roll down at all when I opened the door with the 100% mechanical handle.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by wffurr on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:00AM (#37207831)
Yet another reason to never buy a Tesla. Along with the rest of the awful in-car UX and the at-best mid-pack overhyped ADAS: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/active-drivi....

Once I get my NACS adapter for my Bolt, the main reason to buy a Tesla will be gone as well. I wonder if my 2017 model needs a software update to connect.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by phkahler on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:02AM (#37207844)
Other cars manage to eliminate the window frame and can open and close without needing to lower the window.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by Nafnlaus on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:38AM (#37208132)
"And if you use the emergency switch, the window showers you in shattered glass"

I'll take "Things That Have Never Happened" for $800

Most people with no experience with the car reach for the handle rather than the button, as it's more intuitive. The window does NOT shatter when they do this. The window is up against a rubber seal. Rubber has give - it just drags along the rubber. Which you'd ideally rather not do, but it's hardly the end of the world.

(In case anyone is wondering why it's like this - the cars have frameless windows. The same applies to all cars with frameless windows - Teslas aren't the only ones. Generally higher-end cars.)

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by richbell on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:57AM (#37208278)
> I'll take "Things That Have Never Happened" for $800

It's explicitly mentioned in TFA as something that happened.

) Exton followed the instructions for the manual release to open the door, but he said this "somehow broke the driver's window."

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by ninkendo on Monday August 21, 2023 @08:27AM (#37208542)
> The same applies to all cars with frameless windows

I drove a Dodge Neon in the late 90s with frameless windows. The windows were not powered and it did not have a system to lower them when opening the door. It just worked.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by ZeKK14 on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:06AM (#37207407)
There is no frame around the window. The electrical door handle opens up a bit the window before unlocking the door to free it from the seal.

Without power the manual handle needs to do that also, which is more complicated that a "normal" door handle.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by Zetobal on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:17AM (#37207474)
It's not really complicated... it would be more expensive though.
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by csydas on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:58AM (#37207799)
I have very little understanding on the power requirements for a window, but couldn't Tesla have just reserved some battery off the main battery as an emergency fallback? Just enough power to lower the windows to a safe route, maybe illuminate some LEDs on the emergency latches or paths to the emergency latches? I'm not really interested in discussing Tesla's intended design, but more from just a mechanical/electrical standpoint if it would be expensive (power wise) to have a reserve like this.

Edit: Also, I guess weight also of such a battery, but I suppose maybe the weight can be understood by how much reserve it would need.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by sMarsIntruder on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:06AM (#37207409)
Because of the window frame.

When you open the door, the window slides down slightly to clear the frame. If you force it manually, the window might break.

Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by ilyt on Monday August 21, 2023 @09:16AM (#37209158)
Other cars had frameless windows without that. Tesla as usual tries to reinvent the wheel badly
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by sMarsIntruder on Monday August 21, 2023 @11:40AM (#37211047)
In 2010, I bought a car with the same Tesla frameless system, but I guess it was even a bit dumber :)
Re:Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs af... by bob1029 on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:58AM (#37207805)
The term for this is "indexing windows".

I believe the original intention was to simply create a reliable, water-tight seal.

I've had this style of window on a sports car for about 10 years and never had any trouble. Many situations where battery was dead or winter weather would make it more difficult to open, but never panic-inducing or made me think it was about to shatter. More of a super sticky seal with the rubber.