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Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by robbywashere_ on Thursday August 17, 2023 @05:33PM (#37168425)
something about using html attributes as a programming language makes me cringe a little. The toy apps look great and maybe where these can really shine, but seems like it may start to turn into a mess very quickly
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by DancerOfFaran on Thursday August 17, 2023 @06:23PM (#37169026)
> may start to turn into a mess very quickly

These "stacks" ONLY work if you are building hobbyist apps, or if you want to sell services. A fast-moving product company has many better alternatives that are probably far more tailored to their business objectives and team composition.

Maintaining these things in production for many years is often painful and cumbersome. Moreover, they usually are introduced by a single person who has a lot of enthusiasm to maintain it, but when that person leaves all hell breaks loose. Even more fun is when the underlying infrastructure provider decides to deprecate an API that requires a ton of bespoke fixes (e.g. Netlify's Next.js edge plugin which recently had a behind-the-scenes change to how Lambdas are spun up causing bugs with state leaking between requests).

With that said, it's good to explore new technologies. I just wish these sorts of posts (which are thinly veiled product marketing/tutorials) would expand to actual direction/feedback about how to use new tools in production effectively.

Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by deredede on Friday August 18, 2023 @01:54AM (#37171774)
This is a blog post from somebody exploring how to use a (combination of) tool and reporting on writing a TODO app with it. How could they give direction/feedback about how to use these tools in production effectively when they are only playing around themselves?

New tools are, by definition, new, and full of unknowns. There are roughly only two ways to use them in production effectively: either you understand what they are trying to do and take the risk because you are convinced it is The Way, or you wait until the tool/tech settles and becomes not so new anymore as the experience reports from the first group trickles in.

Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by globalreset on Thursday August 17, 2023 @07:55PM (#37169892)
Like `style` or `input`?

People got so stuck on JS for decades that they've forgot that HyperText in HTML is there for a reason. It was always supposed to be more than just UI descriptor markup.

It is JS who is out of place in web. A little script in form of DHTML that grew into becoming a cancer that it is now.

Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by afavour on Thursday August 17, 2023 @09:04PM (#37170347)
Is this a trick question? Style attributes are awful. It’s why CSS of any reasonable size is written in separate files.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by unmole on Friday August 18, 2023 @12:41AM (#37171464)
Tailwind says hi.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by Macha on Friday August 18, 2023 @06:58AM (#37173934)
I feel a lot of Tailwind's popularity is from people who were not around when inline style attributes were common place.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by scrollaway on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:13AM (#37174095)
And I feel a lot of Tailwind’s flak comes from people who never used it.

Having used inline styles in the past, there is no comparison to tailwind. Tailwind is a good and productive, though certainly not ideal tool. But it’s miles ahead of whatever else has been produced by css frameworks, in terms of productivity and maintainability.

Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by deredede on Friday August 18, 2023 @02:10AM (#37171888)
I'm not sure how that's worse than the plethora of binding attributes that you find in React/Vue/Svelte and the like. Sure they are not technically HTML attributes, but as programming languages, the outcome is very similar.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by scotty79 on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:24AM (#37174686)
React doesn't have bindings.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by deredede on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:08AM (#37175816)
The `value={state}` / `onchange={evt => setState(evt.target.value)}` dance you do instead also fits the "programming with attributes" paradigm, which was my point.
Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by scotty79 on Friday August 18, 2023 @06:37PM (#37183042)
That's really not the recommended way. Write a handler for the event and just mention it in jsx. Don't do stuff inline. Also jsx conceptually is not html. Just alternative syntax for some JS. You don't even have to use it if you want to completely avoid coding in anything that even resembles html.

React is nothing like Vue or Svelte.

Re:Hono and Htmx and Cloudflare is a new stack by scotty79 on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:23AM (#37174675)
I had the same suspicion and it was proven by AngularJS that ended up as horrible ad hoc mess.