News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by brigandish on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @09:47PM (#37070899)
I doubt John Locke would agree that liberty could mean to be suddenly left high and dry with no notice that would likely cost you money.
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @09:58PM (#37071003)
> I doubt John Locke would agree that liberty could mean to be suddenly left high and dry with no notice that would likely cost you money.

Its been a while since I’ve read Locke, but my impression was that he would agree with that. (Not that I would, to be sure.)

What makes you think he wouldn’t?

Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by brigandish on Thursday August 10, 2023 @08:38PM (#37083639)
He wrote about ideals but was not an idealist nor ideologue, and in fact was very pragmatic in nature. That’s possibly his nature or from his work as a doctor. What also stems from that, and his religious outlook, is that his ideas were to serve humans better and promote their good and benefit.

Hence, I doubt he’d find a giant company using its negotiating power - and not forgetting its other legal shenanigans (most relevant in this case would be trying to prevent unions[1] forming) - that necessitates harm to an individual through a “consensual” contract to be part of his idea of what liberty looks like. Would you negotiate such a contract for yourself? I doubt it. Can an Uber driver negotiate it away? I doubt that even more. In fact, there is no negotiation, it’s a take it or leave it offer.

In short, he didn’t seem interested in allowing powerful interests to crush individual interests based on some ill-conceived notion that it’s a free market or that there is true freedom to consent in any meaningful way.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-lyft-and-others-launch-cam...

Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by thegrimmest on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @09:51PM (#37070938)
You can be left exactly as high and as dry as the contract you signed stipulates, and if you have a dispute we have a pretty good system to work that out.
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @10:00PM (#37071014)
Fair contracts need negotiating power on both sides.
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by themitigating on Thursday August 10, 2023 @01:36AM (#37072359)
Equal negotiating power
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by brigandish on Thursday August 10, 2023 @08:41PM (#37083657)
I’m not sure about equal as life can be messy (you have a cash flow problem and need to sell now, the buyer knows that - can that be equal?) but certainly fair should be a good start.
Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by harimau777 on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @10:59PM (#37071417)
As a practical matter, that doesn't work when the power imbalance is so great that one side doesn't have a realistic way to negotiate the contract.

I.e. if the best job that someone can negotiate is one where they are being exploited or abused, then that doesn't make the exploitation/abuse any more just.

Re:Seattle becomes first in U.S. to protect gig workers from... by nextaccountic on Thursday August 10, 2023 @12:11AM (#37071851)
The trouble is that most people will become homeless if they don't get a job. As long as there is a steady rate of unemployment, there are people that can't meaningfully decline whatever conditions are in their employment contract.

And that's what this pretty good system doesn't account for: the inherent coercion of a fundamentally unjust system