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Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by teddyh on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @02:15PM (#37066524)
There’s a principle of monitoring systems and their alerts: “Only alert actionable events.” Applied to this case, if a ToS changes, what can a user do about it? (Let’s not pretend that they will read the entire ToS again every time, or that they even read it the first time.) Even if the change was obvious or highlighted, and even if the change was detrimental, what could a user actually, realistically, do about it? Stop using the service? If the change is that bad, they’ll probably hear about it anyway.
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by toxicFork on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @02:39PM (#37066806)
The service can show a diff, pass it through an LLM into a bite sized email
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by supermdguy on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @03:09PM (#37067142)
I currently show a diff (see https://tosnotify.com/reports/example), but adding some sort of LLM summary could be cool!
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by haldujai on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @06:24PM (#37069203)
Some thoughts:

1. I have no idea (and am curious) how frequently ToS are updated and how often the updates are meaningful to me as an end-user as is the case with Zoom and NightOwl. It would be really interesting if you post some stats after running this service.

2a) Based on the Reddit example: 9 blocks were changed and 1 block was deleted and in a hypothetical use case where I get an e-mail notification about this I would have to read them all.

After reading them none appears substantially different as far as I am concerned as a Reddit user which makes me wonder what the SNR of this service would be as compared to deferring to the HN front page to notify me of major changes that would potentially change my usage of a product.

If I'm missing something significant in this example it would raise the issue of my capability to accurately interpret these changes and therefore whether such notifications are relevant.

2b) Perhaps the "Guidelines for Healthy Communities" changing to "Moderator Code of Conduct" could be significant to a moderator but the details aren't included in the ToS and on searching are listed in a separate document. I wonder how often a ToS reference terms in or includes agreements to other documents, presumably with this service I would have to add and read each one separately?

Overall, it's a great idea but I'm very curious how useful this will end up being in practice, if the SNR is low I'm unlikely to read all the diffs.

For what it's worth I think the price is very fair and I chipped in to support the initiative using my "spam" email. It would be really great if you could do a write-up after a while with some numbers regarding the comments above.

I assume (but IANAL) that there may be some legal liability or at least ethical risks to account for if you were doing this but I would be willing to pay more for a reliable summarized service (i.e. not an off the shelf LLM interpretation) that I can trust to notify me of potentially relevant changes of comparable quality to the HN hive-mind with the advantage of being able to add the services I personally use that the collective here may not.

Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by evrydayhustling on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @09:32PM (#37070782)
Love this, tried it for ya. Check out the chat example [1].

For small changes, I'd rather read the diff. But occasionally, like item (10), it displays an understanding of the content and the summary is pretty useful. With guided prompts I bet you could make it much more useful, and even answer specific questions that align with folks' use cases for monitoring.

[1] https://chat.openai.com/share/c6ec81aa-de8c-49e3-b132-239136...

Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by lynndotpy on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @02:19PM (#37066575)
For one thing, they will need to opt out of arbitration, every time it changes.

I've managed to convince an entire DnD server I'm on to stop using Discord and Zoom because of their recent ToS changes, so it's not unreasonable.

Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by npunt on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @03:12PM (#37067175)
Interesting that users must opt out every time, that seems like something a service could exploit. Imagine a service that has a rotating TOS that updates every week/month with some meaningless change and in each transactional and marketing email they include 'we've updated our TOS' as part of their duty to inform users. People would quickly become blind to that or think it didn't apply to them since it was also in the last email they got.
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by tylercrompton on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @05:27PM (#37068677)
Out of lazy curiosity, what change in particular prompted this?
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by aziaziazi on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @07:08PM (#37069613)
What alternatives do you use?
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by izzydata on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @10:59PM (#37071419)
I'd prefer everyone I know stop using Discord and start using Matrix, but that will never happen.
Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by weberer on Thursday August 10, 2023 @03:20AM (#37073037)
Mumble is great for voice chat.

https://www.mumble.info/

Re:Show HN: Get notified when sites update their terms of se... by JoshTriplett on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @08:48PM (#37070421)
> Stop using the service?

Yes, precisely. But also, do so as a group, and say why they're doing so.

> If the change is that bad, they’ll probably hear about it anyway.

People hear about such changes because someone notices and brings it up and raises a stink about it.

For a service like this, one model that may make sense is to remind the user that their primary recourse is to stop using the service, but that for egregious ToS changes (known types of which you can flag), they may want to sign on to an awareness/action campaign whose premise is "we're not going to use this service anymore, here's why, change the term and we come back, otherwise we're in the market for a new service without that term".