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Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by technion on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:03AM (#36983229)
I've been complaining about this for a while. Everything I try to test with urlscan.io (as a safe sandbox to view a phishing site) has for a while just given me a Cloudflare captcha. Everything I submit to certain automated malware services just come back as "not malicious" despite being clearly malicious, I'm guessing because automation doesn't get past the catpcha.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by supriyo-biswas on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:23AM (#36983375)
I believe they simply need to integrate a captcha provider and write rules for detecting these captchas on various websites.

Many scraping products and the internal scraping systems of companies (especially retailers) implement such mechanisms.

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by heipei on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:35AM (#36983898)
CEO of urlscan.io here: We will be evaluating the use of captcha bypass services soon, we are fully aware of the growing problem of captchas being abused by threat actors to hide their malicious websites from automated analysis tools such as ours.

It's honestly a frustrating problem as we're effectively in an arms race with the likes of Cloudflare, Google et al, and we're in the same boat with less reputable services like scrapers and bots. The recent developments around Web Environment Integrity are concerning to us for the same reasons. Feel free to reach out with any questions or suggestions you might have!

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by password4321 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @07:12AM (#36984162)
I am not familiar with your product but that won't stop me from suggesting that maybe a Y/N API needs a 3rd answer: N/A.

A captcha might serve as a strong negative signal.

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by lpapez on Thursday August 03, 2023 @07:25AM (#36984257)
Given the volume of automated link scraping that you do, would it be possible for your company to arrange for a deal with Cloudflare allowing your servers past their Captcha gate, at least around the free-tier Captcha which the scammers most likely use?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by supriyo-biswas on Thursday August 03, 2023 @07:57AM (#36984577)
This right here is just such a scandal waiting to happen.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by tomklein on Thursday August 03, 2023 @12:04PM (#36987728)
Check https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdqYNuULEypMnp4i5pR... (linked from https://blog.cloudflare.com/friendly-bots/) if you didn’t already.

Disclaimer: I work at CF

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by veave on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:27AM (#36983412)
Why do you need a safe sandbox to view a phishing site? Afraid the site's design could hypnotise you into entering your credit card details?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by nargek on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:40AM (#36983509)
Multiples reasons actually.

1. To bypass your corporate proxy (ok, not the best reason);

2. urlscan also allows you to pivot easily and find the same phishing kit as they have a nice database of scans;

3. urlscan also allows you to see the website from different proxies, which can be useful if there is geofencing.

It isn't that simple and threat actors are far from being dumb :)

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by Sander_Marechal on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:32AM (#36983447)
Phishing sites are often also loaded with malware
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by veave on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:34AM (#36983462)
Afraid the site's design could hypnotise you into double clicking the exe and accepting the browser's, MotW and smartscreen warning dialogs?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by nkrisc on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:37AM (#36983914)
More worried about 0-day browser exploits. If you know a site is malicious, why risk it?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by NoobPretender on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:38AM (#36983486)
And the malware magically gets installed on your computer...how?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by function_seven on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:45AM (#36983539)
Here are 3 CVEs I randomly found from just this year. There are a handful of these every year.

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2023-3079

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2023-37450

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2023-32439

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by iamflimflam1 on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:46AM (#36983549)
I guess you've never heard of browser exploits?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by NoobPretender on Thursday August 03, 2023 @02:23PM (#36989674)
Didn't think about that, good point
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by NullPrefix on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:38AM (#36983493)
If you don't run adblocker pretty much any website is loaded with malware. New York Times was infecting people with Bahama botnet some years ago. What's stopping other (non)shady websites from doing just the same?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by ikekkdcjkfke on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:29AM (#36983860)
I want to browse the net with only bitmaps being sent to me. I do not want to execute your javascript or markup or make requests other than what i have initiated. Please god someone make a docker container i can spin up on a throwaway computer that renders pages and sends bitmaps of the site to my main computer

Edit: even better, every tab is a separate container instance, i close tab, it nukes the container

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by jasomill on Thursday August 03, 2023 @04:16PM (#36991182)
To render pages on a throwaway computer and send only bitmaps, connect to the throwaway computer via VNC and run an ordinary browser.

As for improving on tab isolation over what existing browser sandboxes already offer, lightweight virtualization a la Firecracker seems like a more useful increment than containerization, and, assuming each tab has a similar VNC-like connection to its browser VM, virtualization would also make the whole "throwaway computer" setup less necessary to provide a meaningful security improvement.

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by IIsi50MHz on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:39PM (#36992346)
Sounds a bit like WebRenderingProxy.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by heipei on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:37AM (#36983910)
I would say that you don't absolutely need a service like urlscan.io to look at a single suspicious URL, but running a URL through our sandbox will create a point of time snapshot that you can share with others, compare to existing scans and use as evidence for further actions like takedown.

Disclaimer: I'm the CEO of urlscan.io

Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by ceva on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:57AM (#36984030)
We fucking saw that you are CEO the first time.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by _micheee on Thursday August 03, 2023 @07:11AM (#36984149)
Why so rude?
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by bryanrasmussen on Thursday August 03, 2023 @06:58AM (#36984035)
the phishing attempt from the url that looks like it comes from your bank can also have exploits to attack your browser, other than getting you to enter your credit card details.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by loxdalen on Thursday August 03, 2023 @07:49AM (#36984501)
I would be worried about CSRF and other potential exploits..
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by lll-o-lll on Thursday August 03, 2023 @05:24AM (#36983385)
So is there a solution to this? Kind of feels like the bad guys win.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by superkuh on Thursday August 03, 2023 @10:18AM (#36986303)
The bad guys did win. Cloudflare is used by everything now. They're becoming a single point of failure.
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by kmeisthax on Thursday August 03, 2023 @09:02AM (#36985317)
This is going to get 10x as 'fun' once Web Environment Integrity means that malware developers can demand attestation that you're a real victim and not a URL scanner
Re:Google AMP – The Newest of Evasive Phishing Tactic by heipei on Thursday August 03, 2023 @09:52AM (#36985928)
That is exactly my worry. It's hard enough as it is with VPN / IP detection, headless detection, Captchas, etc. WEI would probably mean game over for all but a handful of Google-sanctioned bots.