> iCloud Backup (non e2ee by default)

I don't see any option to enable e2ee iCloud Backup on iOS 16.6, does this mean your information is outdated and it's all e2ee now?

It’s called “advanced data protection”. You’ll find it hidden deep within the iCloud settings.

It’s off by default.

Wow, thanks for mentioning this. I was also under the impression it was e2ee by default but it was actually disabled for me.

Interesting. FYI, I'm not an apple user, but no upset that some are.

I wonder. Is this an attempt to market? Make it optional, but tout "we do this!', as if it is?

It's not a bad marketing position.

Actually there is a third option, don't back-up your iMessage to iCloud in the first place. In this configuration you need to transfer your content from device to device using a local backup if you intend to keep your messages.

You the have the same level of privacy (if not higher) than with ADP. But with the same drawback, if your recipient does backup to iCloud without ADP then messages can be intercept by apple at rest on your recipient iCloud backup.

Incidentally ADP mainly target users that didn't trusted iCloud backup for the lack of e2e encryption at rest.

More prosaically it's probably because turning it on means it's easier to lose access to your data if you lose devices/keys. Apple can't help you if they don't have the keys. It's not a bad marketing position.

Yes and to be precise this is the relevant source : https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

The optional iCloud feature called "Advanced Data Protection" is currently an opt-in. It comes with a significant drawback for typical pop and mom users --> If you lost you password and recovery key it's game over you loose everything. So I guess it's sensible to keep this as an opt-in until users are better educated about this drawback.

What will be quite significant is wether or not this feature will be available for chinese users.

It make sense from a technical POV to block ADP feature in poorly democratic countries that might request it like China and maybe tomorrow the UK.

PS : Once a significant % of users activated ADP it could be a good UX improvement to display a warning to mixed ADP status conversation that the conversation is not fully e2e encrypted. However this might be premature right now otherwise early adopters of ADP would be flooded by such warning.

There’s some confusion here, iMessage is end to end encrypted by default. That in no way protects the information on each users device.

If iCloud is enabled, then by default it gets unencrypted copies of these messages from the device unless “advanced data protection” is also enabled which ensures iMessage is encrypted but means losing your password also loses access to these backups. However, disabling iCloud sidesteps this issue and honestly if you want that kind of privacy then disabling iCloud is probably a good idea.

If you scrolled down in the link provided above, it mentions with BOTH Standard and Advanced data protection messages are end to end encrypted, it’s just with advanced data protection the encryption key also ends up being encrypted too, but I’m positive even this has changed recently. You can try looking at logs when you turn on messages in iCloud and see that your messages are encrypted.

So lots of confusion in this thread, my advice for Apple would be make it very very clear to users that your data is safe. I mean they are threatening to back out of UK, so it’s against their core principles and also probably very technically expensive to undo they end to end encrypted system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've read that ADP is not fully available in China.

Don’t know why you’ve been downvoted. You’re correct. I forgot ADP was optin. This is likely why China allows it.

Also possible ADP is off as an option in China.

Of course this wouldn’t work for the UK system unless the UK demanded the iCloud keys same way as China has.