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Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by pookha on Friday July 28, 2023 @10:18AM (#36907150)
The average person has no idea how hard life was back then. I think something like 50% of a ships sailors would die from scurvy on long distance voyages. East Indian Company's ships could lose 70%. And a lot of these dudes were getting kidnapped and forced into service by press gangs (Naval ships). The market for lemons was life and death...Every day I thank God that I'm alive in the 21st century.
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by DiscourseFan on Friday July 28, 2023 @10:37AM (#36907427)
Yeah but then you hear about tribal societies, which didn't have access to modern medicine but they spent a lot of time just sort of hanging out and having sex and the only other thing they did was walk long distances and hunt and pick berries and shit. THAT doesn't sound terrible at all.
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by yowlingcat on Friday July 28, 2023 @10:43AM (#36907534)
One of the operative activities there, hunting, seems quite stressful. Not sure that a return to said tradition would feel like a step forward for a lot of folks.
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by Swizec on Friday July 28, 2023 @11:10AM (#36907945)
Hunting sounds fun to us because we’re like fat domestic cats. Do some hunting, then go back to your supermarket dinner. Maybe eat what you caught as a special treat, if it’s nice.

Subsistence hunting is more like didn’t catch anything today? Guess we starve until next time. oopsies. Hope you don’t get too hungry and weak to perform at your next hunt. Fingers crossed.

Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by jfoutz on Friday July 28, 2023 @11:28AM (#36908307)
It's been a while since I had an anthropology class. If I remember correctly, it's really tied to how harsh the environment was. So natives in Alaska had to hunt or starve. For equatorial people, the stakes were much lower. There was an abundance of alternatives.

One way to look at it, how much art did they produce? Lots of art? Food was probably pretty easy to come by. Scratch a line on a log? Those folks worked _hard_ to survive.

I'm sure there were lean times for everybody. I'm not trying to say you or parent poster are wrong, I'm saying it's a big world, and all of those things and more were true for somebody, somewhere.

Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by civilitty on Friday July 28, 2023 @12:34PM (#36909431)
> One way to look at it, how much art did they produce? Lots of art? Food was probably pretty easy to come by. Scratch a line on a log? Those folks worked _hard_ to survive.

That's really only applicable to desert civilizations and those in colder environments where decomposition is arrested, which were unfortunately the harsher environments. Humans in the tropics are more likely to use wood and other organic materials to produce art, which don't survive for very long.

The oldest wooden art is only 9,500 years old [1] whereas the oldest stone tools are over 3 million years old [2]. The oldest wooden tools, on the other hand, are hundreds of thousands of years old for spears and tens of thousands of years old for axe handles.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomekwi

Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by katbyte on Friday July 28, 2023 @11:25AM (#36908255)
Not so great for childbirth, infants, elderly, those who do get sick, etc
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by cm2012 on Friday July 28, 2023 @12:29PM (#36909349)
Also, like 50% of deaths in tribal society were from violence. Believe me, your current life is better.
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by kangda123 on Friday July 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#36909475)
Interesting, do you have any sources for this?
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by _a_a_a_ on Friday July 28, 2023 @01:31PM (#36910299)
I can't give a source but a figure I heard was 30% to 90% of males died prematurely in preindustrial[1] cultures due to violence.

Can't remember the source, sorry.

[1] My word, afraid I can't recall the right/more precise one.

Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by thimkerbell on Friday July 28, 2023 @02:41PM (#36911301)
Does Google have anyone tasked with investigating and resolving such mysteries?
Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by JJMcJ on Friday July 28, 2023 @10:53AM (#36907653)
Saw an episode of the show "Finding Your Roots", exploring the ancestry of the guests.

One of the guests was of Italian descent and one of his ancestors moved from Sicily to Louisiana in the late 19th Century. Many of those Italians worked as laborers on the sugar plantations.

So, as Henry Louis Gates, Jr., the host, said, Sicily was so poor that working on a Louisiana sugar plantation was better.

Re:Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017) by leafmeal on Friday July 28, 2023 @12:16PM (#36909134)
I learned about the plight of Sicilian immigrants in New Orleans at that time from Annie Proulx's historical fiction book "Accordion Crimes". She was inspired in a large part by a lynching of Italian immigrants which was depicted in the book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891_New_Orleans_lynchings