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Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by echelon on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:52PM (#36857660)
> Judging by all the hate Mozilla gets around here, it would be nice to at least see some credit given where it is due.

Mozilla, the browser, is great.

Mozilla efforts, such as Rust, have been historically great.

Mozilla leadership is currently awful. They focus is on the wrong things - web VR and low-quality foundational AI models. Maybe because they think the web is at risk of disappearing outright. But the true enemy is Google, and they're currently its well-behaved prisoner.

Mozilla can't bite the hand that feeds it, but someone needs to point the FTC, Congress, and the EU at Google. Everything they do, buy, and work on is to point an overwhelming majority of internet users at its ad products. Chrome, Search, Android, YouTube, Apple default search engine deal, etc. Google has become inescapable. And that's rather anti-competitive if you're trying to advertise your business or selling ad tech.

Nevermind that the web commons and standards are constantly in Google's blast radius for funneling everyone into their gaping maw.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by insanitybit on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:56PM (#36857681)
I can't see how Mozilla could possibly right the ship with their current CEO. If they get rid of her maybe things could improve. Until then, I'd bet on Microsoft/Apple before I bet on Mozilla when it comes to protecting the web.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by twelvechairs on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:12AM (#36857784)
What has the CEO done?

Microsoft and Apple dont have a good history so assuming there is something big here?

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by clipsy on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:24AM (#36857874)
The CEO is a woman who dares to earn a small fraction of what most other comparable bay area CEOs make, and for a certain segment of HN this is deeply infuriating.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by huggingmouth on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:46AM (#36857999)
She completely and utterly failed at her duties as the organization's leader. That over inflated compensation package that's seemingly inversely-correlated with firefox's userbase and the number of technical roles at Mozilla is most certainly not "earned".

I'd personally call it embezzlement or misappropriation of funds, but that's just me.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by peyton on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:59AM (#36858088)
Haven’t heard about that, but even Safari is kicking their ass on desktop market share. I just visited the Firefox download page. It looks like shit. Something’s not going right over there.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by HideousKojima on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:15AM (#36858216)
Or it's that she's taking Mozilla down paths that lead to Chrome dominance in the future, while getting paid a hefty sum that would be better spent funding Firefox development.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by cygx on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:41AM (#36858406)
As far as I know, the Mozilla Corporation is owned by the Mozilla Foundation, which is a non-profit with the mission to make the internet a better place, or something along those lines. So shouldn't we look at the boards of things like the Wikimedia Foundation or the Internet Archive instead of bay area CEOs for comparison?

It's also not a particularly good look when your own salary keeps rising while you're laying people off and market share keeps plummeting (in my neck of the woods, Firefox actually used to be domminant at 60%+)...

That said, I haven't looked at this in any kind of detail, and all I know of Baker is what her Wikipedia article tells me, which includes writing the Mozilla Public License, managing mozilla.org on a volunteer basis for a while and being instrumental in the creation of the Mozilla Foundation.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by input_sh on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:05AM (#36860154)
> So shouldn't we look at the boards of things like the Wikimedia Foundation or the Internet Archive instead of bay area CEOs for comparison?

Sure, let's do that. Here's the highest paid employee of all three in 2021 (as that's the last year where there's data on all three):

Internet Archive: $158,777 (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/943...)

Wikimedia Foundation: $406,339 (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200...)

Mozilla Foundation: $337,714 (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200...)

I wouldn't classify any of those salaries as exorbitantly large. Hell, I'm fairly certain at least some people shitting on them here earn more than that a for-profit.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by cxr on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @09:27AM (#36861889)
To Mitchell's credit, and something that almost never gets talked about, she also managed to extract a lot of money from Yahoo based on the terms of the search deal they signed, but a substantial part of that was self-inflicted by Yahoo—and whether Mozilla should have sold users out to Yahoo to begin with is, of course, another question (to which the answer is "no").
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by xxs on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:18AM (#36858231)
Effectively ensured Mozilla is entirely dependant on Google as a single revenue steam. No other initiatives to earn anything.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by Vinnl on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:50AM (#36859679)
Mozilla VPN, Firefox Relay Premium, Pocket Premium, MDN Plus, Hubs Enterprise... I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.

Of course, there's also criticism for attempting those.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by hooverd on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:14PM (#36864614)
Mozilla should be independent from Google. No, not like that!
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by insanitybit on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:45PM (#36865243)
TBH it's a really good point. Any time Mozilla has tried to appeal to users in a way that would actually be profitable their users have lost their minds over it.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by xxs on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @03:33AM (#36874204)
The issue is that donating money to Mozilla does nothing for Firefox; Personally I use Firefox on everything (home, work, phone); Firefox is the browser for my family too - much the same (Firefox on everything, phones included).

If I could/had to pay/donate for it - I'd gladly do, but it's virtually impossible.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by Vinnl on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @11:18AM (#36879167)
AFAIK income from particular Mozilla products isn't earmarked for spending on specifically those products, so buying non-Firefox products can provide income that can be used to fund Firefox development.

That said, I think income from Firefox's default search engine pretty much dwarfs any income that could potentially be gained from donations/buy-to-support.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by FireBeyond on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:29PM (#36866028)
Well, Pocket Premium got a lot of criticism for going completely against user sentiment, and the small matter of a lot of heavily lawyered weasel wording statements to very strongly imply that no money was exchanged when in fact quite a lot of money was exchanged to make it happen.
Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by insanitybit on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @10:59AM (#36863284)
Some stuff:

1. Under her leadership Mozilla has lost virtually all of its users. It has been reduced to less than 10% of what it had before.

2. At the beginning of Covid, a time when remote work was on the rise and tech valuations were through the roof, she took her largest payout and fired hundreds of employees. She was compensated at over $5M dollars, enough money to pay a team of engineers for years.

3. Firefox has utterly failed to capture Enterprise market, where Chrome has managed to dominate. I doubt most people are even aware that a corp managed Firefox is an option, they have done such a poor job marketing it.

She has failed in every conceivable way as a CEO. She has failed in terms of the mission, she has failed her employees, she has failed her users, she has failed to be an example as a leader.

Mozilla, as it exists today, is a convenient project for Chrome to point to and say "look, there's competition" - perhaps the only reason why Google continues to fund Mozilla.

Microsoft and Apple are at least competently run and have incentives to push to reduce Chrome's power.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by gochi on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:28AM (#36857904)
Google is set to go on trial in 2024 with the FTC. We'll see how that goes. I don't have high hopes, primarily due to how difficult it is to expect larger reach by adhering to past laws that are quite lenient. At most I can see AdX being negatively affected, but that wouldn't result in the substantial change most want here and would just allow another like Apple to step in and repeat what Google has done.

From what I understand, the arguments about self-preferencing kind of always get thrown out due to a more strict interpretation of the law. Did with Apple, and with Facebook when they were acquiring Instagram and Whatsapp.

Re:Mozilla Standards Positions Opposes Web Integrity API by runiq on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:19AM (#36859867)
Ya. All I want is to throw moneydollars at the fucking browser, not at whatever feel-good initiative of the month the Mozilla Foundation is coming up with. I don't understand the problem.