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Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by xtracto on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:02AM (#36835989)
In Mexico and Singapore, Nissan introduced the Epower technology which is a hybrid in which the combustion part only serves as generator. All the driving machinery is electrical, and both the mpg and range are great.

In hindsight I think it's an obvious technooogy: the conplexity of the combustion generator is pretty low, doesn't need gearbox, pistols, cylinders and whatnot. And the fuel tank still gives good range NY recharging the battery.

Got a Kicks with this tech, and so far it has been pretty good for both city and the road (5 hr drives to the beach!)

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by tln on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:28AM (#36836252)
Pretty sure the engine still has pistons and cylinders :)

Here's a nice page explaining the system -- a serial hybrid. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHI...

According to the page, you can't plug in these vehicles, is that right?

Chevy Volt was conceptualized as a serial hybrid iirc, but the engine drives the powertrain at higher speeds so it's not a pure serial hybrid. Mazda has a rotary engine based serial hybrid / range extender out or coming out too I believe.

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by londons_explore on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:19AM (#36836155)
Every other manufacturer calls this a series hybrid or electric with range-extender.

They have cost challenges - because if you want to drive one at a constant 80 mph on the freeway, you need at least ~50 horsepower of gasoline generator, ~50 horsepower of generator ~ 50 horsepower of generator inverter, ~50 horsepower of motor, ~50 horsepower of motor inverter.

Turns out all of that costs and weighs a lot more than just 100 horsepower of gasoline engine for a similar size car.

Cars like the BMW i3 with range extender undersize their gas engine and generator to save money and weight, yet are getting sued because in worst case conditions (driving up a mountain heavily laden), sometimes the car runs out of battery power and has to rely on gasoline alone, leading to a top speed of only 20 mph - not really usable!

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by amluto on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:56AM (#36836510)
California has bizarre regulations regarding range extenders.

I also don’t see why 50 hp is a good target. The oldest Model S cars can drive on the freeway (at moderate speed) using maybe 25 kW (33 hp). So a 25 kW generator would allow indefinite freeway driving at moderate speed. But almost no one does this except maybe long haul trucks that trade drivers.

IMO the right way to think of it is: a 25 kW generator will almost fully recharge the battery in under 4 hours. If you drive uphill or fast for two hours, and you run that generator, you have an extra 50 kWh. If you want to drive 10 hours (shudder), that’s an extra 250kWh — you should avoided about three long charging stops, so maybe one actual level 3 stop gets you there even if you drive moderately fast.

And you can stop for the night (or sightseeing or whatever, as long as you park outdoors), and you’ll be fully recharged afterwards. I would appreciate a 5kW onboard generator for this purpose!

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by londons_explore on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:03PM (#36836592)
Tiny engines (ie. sub 20 horsepower) have pretty poor efficiency, and tend not to meet modern emissions requirements (since they haven't been developed with automotive use in mind).

Nobody is putting much R&D into new engine designs.

Lots of countries have laws saying an engine in a car can't be running without a driver present.

For all those reasons, tiny range extenders on large batteries don't tend to exist.

Instead you get moderate or large range extenders paired with smallish batteries (ie. total range 50 miles). And they still have trouble if you drive fast, heavily laden, up a hill, on a hot day for more than the battery capacity.

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by tremon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:21AM (#36836170)
the conplexity of the combustion generator is pretty low

To add: you can always run the engine at its most efficient rpm, getting the most out of every liter of fuel.

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by hutzlibu on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:09PM (#36836667)
Yes, but you also have the extra weight of the second engine - and you have to transform that mechanical energy to electricity before the electric engine transforms it back to mechanical energy again, which is lossy. So all in all I think it makes sense for long range/remote areas, but I rather would have a fuel cell as a range extension. (which has its own downsides of course)
Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by ianai on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:14AM (#36836116)
Or why can’t an EV drive up to a gas station and pick up a towable battery to get to the next stop. I’ve heard it’s done in China.
Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by drewg123 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:07PM (#36837317)
I like the idea of one-way rentals of towable generators. Think a U-haul like model, where you pick one up at a gas station near your origin, and drop it at your destination. Now if EV makers would just allow charging while driving..
Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by recursive on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:44PM (#36839004)
It's probably more trouble and cost than it's worth. How many thousands of dollars are you willing to deposit for the use of the battery?
Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by ianai on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:18PM (#36841004)
You can rent a pretty near CDL sized truck from UHaul/etc for little trouble. This would represent less than the upfront cost of a truck from the companies POV. They’d only need to worry about the chance people don’t reuturn the batteries. That seems unlikely given the same people would have given all their info up front and are highly likely to need a battery in the future. Vehicle rentals are far more risky and still a daily occurrence.

I’m 100% certain the market could exist. Probably the difficult part is car manufacturers supporting it and possibly some engineering problems (low probability of problems I think).

Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by croes on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:24AM (#36836216)
These hybrids totally fail the reason of EVs, get rid of the CO2 emissions of combustion engines.
Re:With the 745-Mile Solid-State Battery, Toyota Just Became... by briffle on Sunday July 23, 2023 @12:18PM (#36836758)
While it’s great to see in a car, this has been the standard technology for locomotives for 70 years.

There are lots of pluses to not having a transmission, and always running your engine in a narrow, tuned, power band