News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by LaurensBER on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:10AM (#36834975)
German speaking financial institutions are a special kind of IT hell. Perhaps it's a cultural love for rules in combination with compliance that evolves in a hellish bureaucracy, perhaps it's something in the local beer. We can only speculate but I've never worked in an environment as dysfunctional as the ones I've seen at big German companies.

To give a few examples:

- Running all services under a single Linux account, then requiring vendors to support password encryption in the startup scripts (everyone can access our production passwords!), then proceeding to store the production password in plain text in GIT and Confluence where everyone could read it.

- Everyone (including contractors) had access to the production environment through the testing environments, including unrestricted access to the production database (without requiring as much as a password). This was not deemed nearly as important as the passwords in the point above.

- I received an official warning for disclosing to AWS/GCloud that we did not have CI/CD setup but would be interested in getting one up and running at some point. This was considered to be "sensitive" information.

- Ansible deployments taking 12 hours (on a 6 server environment) because as it turns out, some random "security" settings slowed down SSH, incompetent people not really understanding what they we're doing did the rest.

- Ansible being blocked because someone in the security department read that it only required HTTPs access, turned out that they were reading the documentation for the WebUI.

- Requiring manual deployment of PR's to test environments and manual testing, the "evidence" + logs of doing this was to be documented in a Word document and attached to the PR.

- Automation and DevOps was banned because "The law does not allow us to do this"

- No rsync due to security reasons, great fun when you had to sync 200k small files :)

- PRs were kept around for months, so "senior" developers could estimate the risk. This included fixes that were hotfixed in production so that it was guaranteed to break again at the next 12 hour deployment (thus giving the same developers even more reasons to be even more "cautious" with all future PRs)

- Three different database schema's, three different database technologies, microservices, a React frontend, 50 outsourced developers for an internal CRUD application with 2000 entities, to be used by 10-20 users

- All .exes not on a whitelist were banned, so in order to run your application you just had to rename it to word.exe :)

- At one point external developers were hired, we requested a desktop for them that would allow them to "write" code. They got a locked down VM with notepad installed and nothing else

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by Ingaz on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:24AM (#36835078)
I worked for a Swiss firm and never noticed anything strange.

Both founders are German speaking. Good guys.

Although that was a small firm not a giant

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by arianvanp on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:31AM (#36835139)
Switzerland is nothing like Germany from my experience.

(I worked for a Swiss company from Germany. That's how I ended up here.)

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by LaurensBER on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:47AM (#36835247)
I work for a small Swiss firm at the moment as well, the smaller firms are a lot better especially in Zurich where Google also has a big office (and Meta and Nvidia have smaller offices) so there's lots of cross pollination.

The firm in my post above is very much a Swiss firm though, you've probably heard of them, they're not a bank.

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by luplex on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:25AM (#36835089)
Most likely it's a lack of talent, and lack of political will to actually take IT seriously.
Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by FirmwareBurner on Sunday July 23, 2023 @10:29AM (#36835630)
>Most likely it's a lack of talent

Lack of talent is not an issue in Germany. German unis and schools produces great devs. The whole "talent shortage" in Germany is propaganda from companies engaging in wage suppression, and actually a shortage of pay that keeps decent devs away from shit companies.

It's more the lack of good pay to motivate people, but the main issues are the immovable and outdated bureaucracy without any wish to address it, and the heavy top - down approach where top management is clueless and dysfunctional, scaring away the top talent over time and only ensuring that equally clueless yes-men stay.

These large German "ships" are only good at bureaucracy, maintaining the jobs and status quo for those at the top, not innovation or customer satisfaction.

My favorite about German companies is project management done in Excel, and bosses who don't want to use Jira and demand their seniors send them emails explaining the current work status. You can't make this up.

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by progbits on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:39AM (#36836352)
Developer hoping for management to use Jira? Now I've seen it all.

Just kidding, nightmarish as it is, beats emails and excel for sure.

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by intelVISA on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:00AM (#36835962)
> - PRs were kept around for months, so "senior" developers could estimate the risk. This included fixes that were hotfixed in production so that it was guaranteed to break again at the next 12 hour deployment (thus giving the same developers even more reasons to be even more "cautious" with all future PRs)

Classic strategy :D, those aren't seniors: they're Gods.

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by monetus on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:30PM (#36840046)
For some reason, I think forcing the use of a word document in a PR is the funniest part of these anecdotes. Thanks for sharing.
Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by nunez on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:35PM (#36840655)
> DevOps was banned because "The law does not allow us to do this"

I want that on a shirt lol

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by rk1079 on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:21AM (#36847576)
I have some of these too.

- technologies had to be evaluated to be allowed on the network. This process took years. Git (as a replacement for subversion) had been in evaluation for over 14 years at the time.

- network authentication mechanisms made building an http/s Webservice internally impossible without the security teams approval which takes months.

- ironically the 'rules' around 'security' were regularly broken and not audited when it was convenient for someone with the clout to make something happen.

Re:Deutsche Bank's “dysfunctional” IT division (2018) by lpfnrobin on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:13PM (#36851226)
Achtung baby