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Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by Havoc on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:30PM (#36765573)
Or alternatively don’t drive ancient polluting cars in heavily populated areas with fantastic public transport?
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by Dig1t on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:35PM (#36765617)
Enforcing such a policy via mass surveillance is a bit Orwellian though isn't it?
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by hhh on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:59PM (#36765876)
No value judgement here, but how else would you enforce it?
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by mock-possum on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @02:12AM (#36768512)
More cops! More traffic stops and checkpoints! More inspections and fees!

No wait fuck nobody likes any of that.

Okay what about buyback programs. What about trade ins. What about tax breaks and government subsidies for buying newer vehicles with less hem fuel emissions? What if instead of paying to enforce a law, you paid to change the conditions that lead to the problems that the law was created to address in the first place?

Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by hugh-avherald on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @02:29AM (#36768633)
Every tax break is a tax increase for someone else. Buying polluting vehicles would encourage people to buy harmful things because they would expect the government would eventually pay them off (or equivalently would discourage people from buying less polluting vehicles early, lest they miss out on a bailout).
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by wcoenen on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @03:49AM (#36769163)
> Okay what about buyback programs

Already in place.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scr...

Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by c4ptnjack on Monday July 17, 2023 @10:36PM (#36767116)
Is that more Orwellian than say anti-theft camera systems or red light cameras at stoplights?
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by Dig1t on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @01:36AM (#36768242)
It depends on who controls the cameras, but yes generally every added means of surveillance by a centralized power takes us closer to an Orwellian society.

anti-theft cameras less so, because they are controlled by individual people, but as seen with Ring doorbells, the government can still access them, so it's pretty creepy.

Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by mock-possum on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @02:05AM (#36768451)
Seems about on par to me
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by thedrbrian on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:12PM (#36765995)
the ULEZ is in London
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by valdiorn on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @03:48AM (#36769158)
A rather naive take that ignores a lot of history.

I drive a diesel 2016 VW Passat. A very "average" car by UK standards. My car does not qualify for the ULEZ and I'd have to pay the toll. I don't drive a giant gas guzzling truck. Not do I drive a 20 year old banger. I drive a "responsible" family sedan. Yet this is not enough to escape the toll.

When I bought that car, diesel cars were heavily favoured as the more environmentally friendly option by the government. People were encouraged to buy them, there were subsidies and various incentives to buy a car like mine. Then Dieselgate hit and everyone went running away from diesel.

Now consider that the government is extending the ULEZ to cover a huge area including millions of people. Those people are all being told "cough up £12.50 EVERY DAY or buy a BRAND NEW, expensive car". Well, not everyone has 20 grand to drop on a new electric, so they're just shit out of luck. 12.50 is an hour of their salary post taxes. That's an HOUR every day that poor people need to work extra, just for the privilege of getting to and from work.

How angry would you be if you were forced to work an extra hour a day just for the privilege of getting in and out of your own neighbourhood?

Also, regarding your take on public transport; public transport is great in central London. If you go to any of the neighbouring towns, where the ULEZ is being extended to, it's a different story. Train lines only go one direction: towards London. If you're going from town A to town B and public transport is your only option, you may find yourself needing to go into London and then back out again. That takes a long time and is very expensive. People need cars to get places in those towns. Also, as someone who recently became a parent; public transport and infants do not mix well.

In short; it's a tax on the poor (doubly so for people with small children), with a side order of revisionist history punishing those made responsible purchasing choices 5 years ago.

Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by hulitu on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @04:31AM (#36769481)
> Train lines only go one direction: towards London. If you're going from town A to town B and public transport is your only option, you may find yourself needing to go into London and then back out again.

This plagues public transport in a lot of countries. Want to go with public transport in 2 neighboring towns ? You might need to go a couple of tens of kilometers through another town because there is no direct connection.

Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by moeffju on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @04:54AM (#36769638)
Could you elaborate on how that makes you unable to use public transport?
Re:“Blade Runners” destroying Ulez surveillance cameras in t... by angus-prune on Tuesday July 18, 2023 @06:29AM (#36770232)
(Context, I'm already within the ulez. I can see the boundary from my house.)

The diesel fraud over the last couple of decades is really unfortunate. It's messed over a lot of people and caused a bunch of needless environmental harm in the meantime.

But you don't need to get a new 20k electric car. You can get a cheap second hand petrol car of probably the same age. A quick Google shows your car is worth 10-15k, so you have some good equity for a better ulez car, of which there are plenty in that price range.

Selling a car is a faff and it sucks, but the ulez is designed to change behaviours, it wouldn't be effective of it didn't effect people.