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Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by rsynnott on Friday July 14, 2023 @12:13PM (#36726013)
Oh, sure, I get that if something gets lost you need to find it. My impression from the comment was that military cockpits were designed such that it was easier for stuff to get lost than it might be, tho, which is what I was curious about.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by TylerE on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:10PM (#36726795)
Military cockpits are a moving target in more ways than one. The cockpit of an aircraft like the B-52 is unrecognizable from when it was built.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by HumblyTossed on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:20PM (#36726980)
Why would one waste money (and weight) building a cockpit that was more than just utilitarian? It is a war machine which may get lost in war (or war practice).
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by rsynnott on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:26PM (#36727066)
One way to get lost, in war or otherwise, feels like someone dropping an iPad where no iPad should be. And these things aren't _generally_ exactly built on the cheap.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by sitkack on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:30PM (#36727131)
Sounds like a design flaw if there is so much open machinery that a disloged part can jam everything up. Stuff comes apart.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by civilitty on Friday July 14, 2023 @03:21PM (#36728691)
> The hard mount points for child seats are a great positive example of this.

You're comparing child seats built for the greatest common denominator to high tech war machines that were built on the principle of "kill or be killed" for the best funded and most advanced armed forces on Earth. Every kilo of paneling is another kilo that slows down the aircraft, reduces its range, and changes its balance/maneuverability.

Aircraft technicians are just expected not to drop pens and other crap in cockpits and engines on a regular basis. It's a completely different operational context.

Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by sitkack on Friday July 14, 2023 @07:33PM (#36731404)
No I am not, your take is looking for an opening in the argument. My example was an engineering solution to a problem of mounting something.

Do better is not the solution. And we aren’t talking about aircraft technicians, I am talking about making designs robust against small parts. It could be a pen, a shoe, a piece of glass or a body part.

You make it sound like paneling, which I didn’t mention, some how has the capability to unbalance an aircraft.

We are talking about different things.

Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by dTal on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:22PM (#36727012)
Avoiding the need to ground and strip the aircraft every time someone drops a pen seems pretty utilitarian.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter... by bitwalker on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:32PM (#36727172)
I worked on F-16 avionics (in aircraft maintenance, on the flightline), there are a lot of little nooks/holes/slots/gaps where small bits of FOD can fall and be incredibly difficult to extract, and the fear of that FOD causing a jam, flying around the cockpit, or getting wedged and causing unexpected wear on wiring harnesses and then shorting out (or worse, arcing) during flight was a _big_ deal. FOD in the cockpit was basically the worst thing that could happen during routine maintenance, because if you couldn't see it, and either couldn't get to it with a magnet (or the FOD wasn't metal), it might require pulling _a lot_ of stuff out of the cockpit before you could reach into the area where it fell. The worst case that could easily happen was having to have Egress come out and pull the ejection seat so you could get under it.

I always figured that all of those little gaps/etc. were due to a couple factors:

1.) the aircraft are constantly being upgraded/modified, so even if you designed the aircraft to be gap-free initially, there will inevitably be changes that introduce them. The cockpit itself is basically a frame with racks that hold all of the avionics, seat, etc.

2.) in conjunction with the above, ease of maintenance was somewhat important, so they tried to leave at least a little room to maneuver in the cockpit where possible (though there were plenty of places which were a nightmare to work regardless), but that comes at the cost of introducing areas where things can fall.

3.) some components have to be regularly removed and worked on outside the aircraft, or must be free of obstruction during flight, e.g. the ejection seat. So you end up with plenty of gaps where things can fall.