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Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by MarkusWandel on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:28PM (#36603745)
Some years ago I toured a maple syrup operation that has the opposite goal: Concentrate the dissolved stuff in the water. Their first stage was reverse osmosis, but only to a point. Second stage is boil, but with aggressive heat recovery from the steam to preheat the incoming liquid. All this to keep the energy cost under control.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by jeffbee on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:33PM (#36603833)
Does an operation like that, do they heat the syrup under low pressure to reduce the boiling point of water?
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by philote on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:42PM (#36604022)
I'd guess that if anything they'd increase the pressure to raise the boiling point. That way things dissolve in it faster and the water doesn't evaporate away.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by JshWright on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:46PM (#36604120)
The goal is to evaporate the water away. For every liter of finished syrup, you need to get rid of approximately 40 liters of water.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by blamazon on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:46PM (#36604102)
On this topic the 14 minute episode "How Do They Make Maple Syrup?" from the PBS chemistry show 'Reactions' may be of interest:

https://youtu.be/nSRCDiKMEJc

Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:30PM (#36604903)
I'll add Adam Ragusea's Hickory syrup experiment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9IJXuHbKs

Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by tylerag on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:44PM (#36604060)
They're concentrating maple syrup. It comes out of the tree with the sugar and flavors already dissolved in it.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by giantrobot on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @06:39PM (#36608203)
Part of the flavor of maple syrup is due to caramelization and the Maillard reaction of components of the sap. Just concentrating the sap would get you a syrupy substance sourced from a maple tree but it wouldn't be maple syrup.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by MarkusWandel on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:20PM (#36609185)
I've never liked the flavour of maple syrup very much. At the same maple syrup place visit, we had some, on pancakes. WTF? This is plain table sugar! What kind of stunt are you pulling here? The guy supervising the boil said don't you know? The very best grade is like that, hardly maple-y at all! Turns out it really was about the sugar all along, with the initially undesirable maple flavour coming to be prized over time as a side effect.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by JshWright on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:29PM (#36609256)
The stronger colors and flavors occur later in the season. The warmer weather allows more bacteria growth in the sap, which metabolizes some of the sugar into other compounds.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by seanc on Thursday July 06, 2023 @02:45PM (#36620845)
Fun fact, early abolitionists marketed maple sugar as a replacement for cane sugar, since cane sugar was made by slaves while maple sugar was made by northern farmers.

So the old grading system rated the lighter colored plainer sugars and syrups higher than the darker more flavourful varieties. Since less maple flavour made for a better all-purpose sweetener and a more direct competitor to cane sugar.

Nowadays we usually use maple syrup for the flavour, so the grading system is non-judgemental that way. And the darker grades are more likely what you want.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvnyvv/maple-syrup-politics

Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by jtriangle on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:58PM (#36605380)
That's more or less the correct way to run anything energy intensive, scavenge as much of the waste heat as you reasonably can.

Theoretically, continuous distillation can be extremely efficient, as, you're removing as much heat as you're putting into the system. In reality, you get into diminishing returns fairly quickly, because insulation, pumps, heat exchangers, etc, are all far from free, especially at scale.

Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by hinkley on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:03PM (#36626066)
Counterflow heat exchange, baby.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by ftxbro on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @06:36PM (#36608168)
Does this mean I can buy watery maple syrup that is 2x watery for less than half the normal cost like maybe a quarter of the cost? Or does the volume and weight for shipping and handling offset that savings or does one want watery syrup so there is no market so they don't make it?
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by johnwalkr on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @07:40PM (#36608817)
Not Canadian maple syrup, it's regulated. I am pretty sure the regulations started from the producers getting together, or at least has the full support of the producers to keep up quality/reputation.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by throw0101a on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:20PM (#36609183)
> Not Canadian maple syrup, it's regulated.

Correct for things with that specific label, but other X syrup labels can be fair game:

> In the United States, table syrups can be sold under a name consisting of any word followed by the word syrup with the exception of maple, cane, and sorghum. Commonly used names are table syrup, pancake syrup, waffle syrup, and pancake and waffle syrup.[1]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_syrup

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_syrup

Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by ftxbro on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:27PM (#36609249)
I assume that any syrup without a listed maple syrup grade is corn syrup.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by luhn on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:39PM (#36609362)
I think you're overestimating how much you could save. Rule of thumb is that it takes 40 units of sap to make one unit of syrup. (But this can vary widely depending on the sugar content of the sap.) So making syrup at half the concentration would require removing 38 units of water, instead of 39. That's not going to make much of a dent in the processing costs.
Re:Why Is Desalination So Difficult? by ftxbro on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:43PM (#36609395)
bro the more concentrated the syrup the harder it is to remove the next unit of water, that's why i was asking maybe provide a product that stops while it's still a little watery and not have to do the last whole stages