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Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by throitallaway on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @11:48AM (#36602119)
The amount of dark patterns on Windows nowadays is insane. If you want to go through the OOTB setup and use a local account, you'd better not connect to a network (which it's very pushy at getting you to do.) It's literally not an option to set up a local account in most cases. I've rarely touched Windows in the last decade and I'm better for it.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by cevn on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:07PM (#36602435)
In order to get out of using the M$ft account for my dad on win11 I had to disable secure boot, use regedit, etc and it was all very dark and time consuming. Microsoft is The Worst.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by 411111111111111 on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @03:12PM (#36605575)
You could've just logged in with me nothankyou account. You'll be prompted to create a local account with no hassle whatsoever after.

Still pretty terrible that it's necessary, but it's really not a big issue to get around

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by Milnaurr on Thursday July 06, 2023 @12:13PM (#36618255)
You can always utilize [email protected] and it will go straight into creating a local account.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by ghusbands on Friday July 07, 2023 @05:31AM (#36629272)
There are much easier solutions than that. I've not tried the sibling's idea, but just not connecting it to wifi, pressing shift+f10 and running "oobe\BypassNRO" is enough. It's still ridiculous and shameful behaviour from Microsoft, but disabling secureboot isn't necessary.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by cevn on Friday July 07, 2023 @05:04PM (#36638271)
That works for the initial logon attempt, but after that the computer was locked in “S mode” where it doesnt allow you to install anything. In order to get chrome running we had to do the above.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by hwbehrens on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:14PM (#36602551)
In Windows 11 Home 22H2, it's practically impossible to set up without a network connection, which has been a huge pain for me since my mobo's onboard ethernet drivers aren't included (too new, I guess). It's been at least 15 years since I needed to side-load a driver during an OS install to be able to complete it successfully, and the last time was a niche Linux distro. The so-called "workarounds" online are hit-or-miss.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by 16bitvoid on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:27PM (#36602754)
What I've done is sign in using some throwaway account on setup, create a new local user once logged in, login to the new local user, and delete the old user with the Microsoft account.

I think you can also simply unlink and sign out of the Microsoft account once logged in to effectively make it a local user, but your user folder is stuck using the username of the Microsoft account, which also gets cutoff after like 8 characters.

I abhor the whole process and it's annoying because there's no other way to create a local account during Windows 11 setup on e.g., a laptop because it knows that the wifi module works and will not let you progress unless you connect to the internet. I tried unplugging my modem and connecting to my internet-less router, but it still refused to progress because it didn't have internet access.

Don't even get me started on the other dark patterns once you actually have a local user setup, like being pushed through part of the OOTB Windows setup again after a major feature update asking you to login into a Microsoft account and making sure you still want all the (user accessible) telemetry off.

The worst part is that I actually like Windows 11 and some of the new features like the tiling layouts when hovering over the maximize button on a window, the new default terminal program, etc. But, the whole thing is entirely soured by dark patterns like the aforementioned forceful use of a Microsoft account, all the extra Edge and Bing crap being shoved down my throat, the poor web-first Windows search, widgets just basically being an MSN feed, Teams starting at login by default on a new install, random apps and games being advertised in the start menu on a new install, etc.

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by lacrimacida on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:34PM (#36603841)
You realize most windows users will simply go with the flow?
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by bboygravity on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:43PM (#36604040)
Yeah, in the same way that cattle at the slaughterhouse "go with the flow"?
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by 16bitvoid on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:49PM (#36605237)
Of course, but what's your point? That's not meant to be rude. I'm just confused because I talking about myself, not "most windows users".
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by lacrimacida on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @03:11PM (#36605564)
My point is that there’s a small loophole still open actionable for powerusers right now but that won’t be the case for too long. Probably the best thing is to start migrating to a different platform, or at least start thinking about it.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by reaperman on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @11:10PM (#36610604)
For me, that platform is Windows LTSC / Enterprise / IoT, using a resale market product key.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by 16bitvoid on Thursday July 06, 2023 @12:56AM (#36611464)
That's a fair point, but even if they got rid of this loophole, I'm sure there'd still be a registry or group policy loophole. I'd totally switch to Linux if it wasn't for my gaming library, my Nvidia card, and some of the software that I use that is either Windows only or works better on Windows, like the Affinity suite, Blender, UE5, etc. I know the latter two support Linux, but it goes back to the Nvidia card and they simply run better on Windows, at least from my experience. Proton also seems like a pain requiring Steam/Lutris to manage different versions of Proton/Wine, plus a good chunk of my gaming library isn't supported.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by DropInIn on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:42PM (#36623490)
So instead of keeping a windows machine exclusively for your old catalog of games you likely rarely play and only buying new games which run under Linux, you're gonna keep upgrading through whatever nightmare path remains available just so your main PC can run those games?

Or is it that you're so concerned with experiencing specific games which will come out only for windows that you're willing to suffer that he'll?

Because really... Your comment makes you seem irrationally attached to windows only games....

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by 16bitvoid on Monday July 10, 2023 @11:34PM (#36676126)
I only have the one machine and I'm not buying another just to move to Linux. Maybe when it's time to upgrade, I'll go for an AMD GPU and move to a Linux distro.

Regardless, I mentioned other software besides video games and there's more besides what I listed. I've already gone through the process of making Windows less of a nightmare that it's not a problem for me right now. So no, I don't think it's irrational, regardless of video games, to go through the headache of dealing with Linux distros right now, which I've done plenty of in the past and is its own hell that I'd have to suffer.

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by josefresco on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:38PM (#36602919)
Doesn't MacOS require an iCloud account for updates ... effectively making it "required" to use the OS?
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by sprawl_ on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:56PM (#36603232)
Mac App Store app updates, yes. macOS system updates, no.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by sneak on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:36PM (#36609336)
Xcode / compiler - yes.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by gunapologist99 on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:25PM (#36604824)
You also literally can't even launch an iPhone past the initial screens without creating/logging into an Apple account. At least Google lets you use an Android phone without forcing an account.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by concinds on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @05:14PM (#36607213)
"Literally" untrue.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by bun_at_work on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @03:58PM (#36606211)
AFAIK you only need an iCloud account to use iCloud related features, like the app store, syncing across devices, access to Apple services, etc. It's very much usable with just a local user.

Admittedly, they do heavily suggesting connecting an iCloud account.

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by hot_gril on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:00PM (#36609017)
Right. They bother a little about it, but some of my spare Macs have no iCloud account associated, and it's fine.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by nmcela on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:24PM (#36602685)
I was seriousy shocked of all the abuse when I had to install a new winblows laptop for a relative. How is any of it legal? How the hell did we let it happen? Mindblowing.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by Goronmon on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:38PM (#36603920)
I was seriousy shocked of all the abuse when I had to install a new winblows laptop for a relative. How is any of it legal?

What should be made illegal?

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by nmcela on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:14PM (#36604646)
I don't know man, maybe a massive antitrust case is enough.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by jasonjayr on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @12:12PM (#36602519)
"Setup For Organization/School" then, "Domain Join Instead"

Is the spell to just make local account on Professional Edition.

If you have Home Edition, you have to do use the "no network" option in the OOTB setup.

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by tester756 on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:18PM (#36604709)
Are you sure there isnt some button visible on screen to create local account?

I've always been installing Pro versions and I've never been forced to use MS account

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by jcpham2 on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @03:04PM (#36605463)
It’s the domain join instead dark pattern at the bottom of the screen
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by hot_gril on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @07:59PM (#36609007)
Windows 10 (not even 11) was so annoying on the last random laptop that I'm not dealing with it again. And I gotta stress how low my bar is. I don't care about privacy or anything on random spare PCs, I just want it to work without harassing me constantly, and up until now it was tolerable. Idk what a dark pattern is, my word for this is "dogshit." It's more annoying than dealing with Ubuntu's random issues at this point.
Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by Gazoche on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @08:46PM (#36609421)
> If you want to go through the OOTB setup and use a local account, you'd better not connect to a network (which it's very pushy at getting you to do.)

Pulling the ethernet plug to get a local account doesn't even work anymore. The only trick I know still works is to give it a fake account (like [email protected]).

Re:Microsoft denies data breach, theft of 30M customer accounts by aSockPuppeteer on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @09:00PM (#36609538)
Not an option unless someone searches YouTube. https://youtu.be/EOUcvgqOV-0