News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by izacus on Friday June 30, 2023 @08:41AM (#36533830)
I'm seconding the Pixels - they're also pretty much the only phones that allow you to upload your own signing keys, so you can run Google-free GrapheneOS with secure boot enabled.

(Which is also nice for long term support.)

Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by wilsonnb3 on Friday June 30, 2023 @10:01AM (#36535069)
GrapheneOS stops supporting phones when Google stops releasing new firmware for them for security reasons, so you aren’t going to get longer term support from it.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by kdklol on Friday June 30, 2023 @11:28AM (#36536708)
They do have extra 2 years of partial "transitional" support, if I'm not mistaken. But yes, even they will not support them forever as it's not financially feasible without help in the form of first-party updates.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by tiberious726 on Friday June 30, 2023 @11:35AM (#36536873)
To do anything else would be snakeoil at best: no open source project can support the radio firmware
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by allarm on Friday June 30, 2023 @12:36PM (#36538019)
Is it technically possible to write an open source firmware for the existing wireless chips?
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by all2 on Friday June 30, 2023 @12:53PM (#36538291)
Technically, yes. The big hangup is that spec sheets for these chips are often hidden behind NDAs, so devs are left reverse engineering existing firmwares. This extra barrier to entry hobbles further development for many phones.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by mschuster91 on Friday June 30, 2023 @12:57PM (#36538360)
Not really, modem firmware even for wifi and BT is pretty much tied down "thanks" to regulations, you won't get far without an exploit bypassing the signature verification. Governments are apparently very afraid of people modifying their chipsets to be more powerful in range than allowed.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by whelp_24 on Friday June 30, 2023 @01:57PM (#36539364)
Could you link me some of those regulations or a article on it. I am curious
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by tiberious726 on Sunday July 02, 2023 @11:21AM (#36562260)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A... basically, they use the firmware to enforce compliance with the regs on different regions. If you can load your own firmware, you could make the device no longer compliant.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by tomcam on Friday June 30, 2023 @11:52AM (#36537200)
I have been nominated seven straight years for hacker news reader with the least knowledge of security, so I’m embarrassed to ask: what keys would one want to sign and why?
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by highwaylights on Friday June 30, 2023 @12:18PM (#36537690)
It’s not your keys, it’s the Operating System keys uploaded to your device.

Essentially the same way UEFI secure boot works in the PC world.

You’re telling the device hardware “it’s only ok to run software that’s been signed with the private key that matches this public key”, so that once you’ve done that, you can have confidence that the operating system hasn’t been modified in future by anyone other than the original vendor (as only they have the private key).

Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by tomcam on Friday June 30, 2023 @05:33PM (#36542620)
That's a perfect explanation. Thank you.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by kadoban on Friday June 30, 2023 @12:13PM (#36537600)
The keys that verify that new boot software is allowed, the ones that verify it's coming from _you_ and not some other asshole trying to take over your phone after you rooted it.
Re:Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware? by tomcam on Friday June 30, 2023 @05:33PM (#36542627)
Ah, relief. Thank you.