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Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by mistrial9 on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:00PM (#36497224)
two random items from far away -- in the USA, they teach "in 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean, blue" .. but they do not teach the history of Muslim conquest of Iberia, nor do they teach the pirate states of North Africa. As for Jews in Iberia, I met living Portugese here who were taught that "Jews killed Jesus" .. for real. So that was different.

ps- am I allowed to even write this? we shall see

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by wageslave99 on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:05PM (#36497294)
I'm sorry but... what's your point? Is there anything you want to know about the Jews in Spain?
Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by elnatro on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:38PM (#36497640)
Jesus was a Jew so…
Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by ebiester on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:06PM (#36497308)
I know we were taught about the pirate states of North Africa, especially with regards to the treaty of Tripoli in American history.
Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by KoftaBob on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:27PM (#36497527)
>I met living Portugese here who were taught that "Jews killed Jesus" .. for real

"As the religions professed by the Israelites (Second Temple Judaism) and the Romans (Pagan) were different,[7] and since at the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate."

"Pontius Pilate finally asks Jesus "What is truth?". This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [10]

Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus, asking the crowd if they wanted Jesus freed. They demanded instead the release of Barabbas and called for Jesus' death. Fearing a revolt, Pilate relented."

While Pontius Pilate technically was the one who carried out the killing, it was very clearly Jewish Sanhedrin elders and many Jewish people of the area who were the ones calling for Jesus' crucifixion.

I get that "Jews called for Jesus death" can quickly jump to anti-Semitic stuff, but that doesn't mean we need to deny what actually happened.

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by mistrial9 on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @03:56PM (#36497859)
I think you missed filling in your [7] and [10] refs there..

The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) Bible (english), in the plain text commentary says -- clearly it was the Romans who did kill Jesus. Note the commentary at the beginning of the Gospel of Mark. This Bible edition (and commentary) are very widely used in the Protestant world.

Secondly, from a broader point of view, the trial, laws and sentence of Jesus are worldly events, while the entrance to sacred mysteries are subsequent to those events.

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by sigzero on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @04:13PM (#36498067)
"Commentary" is extra-biblical and doesn't mean it is true or correct.
Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @04:01PM (#36497923)
See Acts 4:27. Jesus' followers singled out Herod and Pontius Pilate, but blamed the Gentiles and the Jews for the death of Jesus. (And, in the next verse, state that this was all God's will and plan.)

Blaming the Jews alone seems wrong. But so does blaming the Romans alone.

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by mistrial9 on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @10:49PM (#36501676)
it appears that NRSV Bible text for Acts 4:27 chose

For in this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by KoftaBob on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @04:13PM (#36498064)
The romans did the literal killing because Judea was a roman province, and therefore it was up to the Roman garrison to carry out the punishment.

The people who *called* for the punishment were largely the Jewish Sanhedrin and people of the crowds.

So if we’re going to be pedantic, a more accurate statement would be “The Jewish people petitioned their Roman overlords to kill Jesus on their behalf”.

Re:Undoing the Alhambra Decree by angst_ridden on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @05:22PM (#36498848)
The difficulty is in the "what actually happened" when the only documentation is from hundreds of years after-the-fact.