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Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by tomxor on Saturday June 24, 2023 @09:10PM (#36464267)
> You will eventually, as in the article, hit a loose hold and fall.

It's not that simple, it's not a pure dice roll because not all routes are equal. It depends how hard the route is, what type of rock, what quality of rock, what type of holds, what style of route, whether the route allows you to climb with redundancy or not, the weather conditions, the time of year... and finally you, the subjective component, how well you fit all of those variables.

Granted I don't free solo 7a like this guy did, but I've soloed physically difficult but super solid, safe feeling routes, super easy but fragile, dangerous routes, and super easy, solid but crazy exposed mind fuck routes. I've been rained on, had a bird jump out of a pocket, had base jumpers surprise me, come across friends on route (unavoidably distracting), come across broken holds etc. All curve balls but I had plenty of room to accommodate because of my choices to climb with margins and contingency. Every route requires a different approach, not all routes are a good idea to solo for me, and not all routes are a good idea to solo period.

The point I'm making is that It's possible to regularly partake in this style of climbing with a high probability living to a ripe old age. I believe the majority of people free soloing are trad climbers who climb well under their grade like I do, because it can be considered a subset of trad, and it's good for the mental fitness of harder trad routes and benefits from all of the nuance of the careful and considerate mode which is part of trad climbing. Only people who are pushing the limit, and their own limit when free soloing make the headlines. This guy appeared to be pushing himself to his limit, but maybe this was worth the trade for him, non-climbers wont get this but it can be an incredibly rewarding part of your life, there's a risk to every style not just free soloing and we all accept that risk every time we get on a route. You accept a risk every time you get in a car, but you still get in a car, they are just on different levels of risk reward, what you are willing to accept for what type of reward is entirely subjective so please don't judge others if they are happy doing what they are doing and understand the risk.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by ke88y on Saturday June 24, 2023 @09:56PM (#36464488)
> because it can be considered a subset of trad

Yeah, this 100%. Also a very natural extension of high balling.

Have you done any stupid soloing? Did it happen when you were having a particularly hard time with your mental health? Because I think that's really common and we should talk about "soloing as a sort of suicidal release that hopefully doesn't end in death" issue...

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by tomxor on Sunday June 25, 2023 @09:12AM (#36467874)
> Have you done any stupid soloing? Did it happen when you were having a particularly hard time with your mental health?

I have but it's a drop in the bucket (thankfully). I've done a few routes at a time in my life (over a decade ago) where I wasn't ready for them, and they weren't the most appropriate for soloing.

Other areas of my life were not great at the time. I was not suicidal, but it was a very low point for sure. At the time doing those routes gave me absolute control where I had none elsewhere and lifted me from a dark place into a place of pure focus and presence, and although they were not really conscious decisions (they should have been), I think this is the reason I did them. I don't want to encourage this, but it actually helped me, it gave me confidence and relief. In the interim years, I've sometimes checked myself, and pulled myself back when I think I'm about to solo something for the wrong reasons. I don't want to die if I can help it, but I can totally empathise with Austin, I've seen the entrance to the path he went down, I know why he went down it, I don't blame him.

While I wasn't suicidal, I think there is a spectrum of "despair" on which it exists, and anyone in despair might reach for free soloing as a release and way to gain control. And from personal experience I'm saying it doesn't not work, but it's neither a long term or safe solution when you are in that state of mind.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by fullspectrumdev on Sunday June 25, 2023 @10:06AM (#36468315)
Not the poster you replied to, but yes.

They’re a direct correlation between low points in my life and doing some fucking stupid climbs without protection.

Also agree it’s basically just highballing but … more.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by aidenn0 on Saturday June 24, 2023 @10:14PM (#36464575)
> ...non-climbers wont get this but it can be an incredibly rewarding part of your life, there's a risk to every style not just free soloing and we all accept that risk every time we get on a route.

I'm not a climber, but I get it. However, I have met people who are incapable of thinking about risk at all. As in, if you manged to convince them they were risking their lives driving, they would not be able to drive ever again. For them, ignoring everyday risks is an essential part of navigating life.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by Simon_O_Rourke on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:20AM (#36465749)
There's ignoring everyday risks, and there's knowing but wilfully disregarding avoidable risk. In your example, driving is definitely risky, but deciding not to wear a seat belt driving is just being silly. Same in this case with the lack of ropes - it's being silly for the inner narcissist.
Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by goodgrieving on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:27AM (#36465784)
There’s no bright line. You’re just saying “my understanding of risk is correct, and yours is not”.

As an example, driving is a very avoidable risk. Owning or spending significant time around pool, too, especially with small children. Nevertheless many would say these are “everyday risks”.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by Simon_O_Rourke on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:29AM (#36465792)
Wearing a seat belt, of attaching a safety rope isn't some subjective gray area of risk though.
Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by detourdog on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:05AM (#36466935)
A seatbelt wearing is very similar to sitting in a the seat of a car. Using ropes is very different from no ropes. Rope failure is probably more common than seatbelt failure so the safety margin difference may not be as great.
Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by fullspectrumdev on Sunday June 25, 2023 @10:08AM (#36468328)
If your rope fails while climbing, it’s almost always user error (using the wrong gear, using damaged gear, risky placements, etc).
Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by skeeter2020 on Sunday June 25, 2023 @10:10AM (#36468338)
What about having airbags? or driving a bigger car than everyone else? or not driving faster than 15, 30, 55, 70? Or not driving at night? Or in the rain or snow?

I always wear a setbelt and when I climbed was roped in, but to claim these generally acceptable risk mitigation techniques aren't subjective is just claiming your beliefs are everyone's beliefs. That's not true.

Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by detourdog on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:01AM (#36466922)
I think a word other than narcissist could describe the inner voice. I feel this word choice is pejorative and probably not even accurate description for what is going on.
Re:The Free Soloist Who Fell to Earth by tomxor on Sunday June 25, 2023 @08:54AM (#36467719)
> For them, ignoring everyday risks is an essential part of navigating life.

Oh this is totally a thing, and it's kind of interesting... there are two kinds of people when it comes to fear, the first does not acknowledge many of the activities they do regularly as risky and so don't experience fear at all (key difference), and the second set of people do experience varying degrees of fear.

You can pass from the first into the second or start in the second, you've taken the red pill so to speak. At this point remaining petrified is not useful, it increases risk, realising this you then can then learn how to exist in a state of fear and maintain mental clarity. Next, depending on the activity, you can also learn to modulate it through experience and perspective. e.g when you "should" and shouldn't be scared, varies greatly with the route the conditions, your physical condition, technical skill, and experience and being aware and mindful of your own ability... this is one reason people solo, to "tune" their fear, because it should feel scary, but plenty of protected routes shouldn't.

The funny thing is someone in the first category can appear much like an experienced person in the second category, but one is oblivious, and one is very attuned to their fear and thus more likely to survive, it's only people in the middle that are scared out of their mind.

But to be clear I'm not saying this applies in this climber's case, he was mostly likely very attuned to the risks, but gaining higher and higher tolerance and pushing those to the edge for other reasons.