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Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by lizardking on Saturday June 24, 2023 @04:49PM (#36462535)
FDR's administration was the most effective of the 20th century and was characterized by more top-down control than any other during the period in question. Maybe you don’t like the outcomes, but it can’t be argued that much was accomplished.
Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by NoMoreNicksLeft on Saturday June 24, 2023 @05:00PM (#36462614)
Effective at concentration camps, or supreme-court packing?

God save us from effective government.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by throw0101a on Sunday June 25, 2023 @08:06AM (#36467348)
> Effective at concentration camps, or supreme-court packing?

Like Guantanamo or what the GOP is currently doing (e.g., not giving Garland hearings "because it is too close to the election")?

Government, and political opportunists, can be effective in both good and bad policies/actions.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by NoMoreNicksLeft on Sunday June 25, 2023 @06:18PM (#36473215)
I'd blame those things on the Democrats too. You can't keep cheating and cheating, and then whine that the other side started cheating too just to keep up with you.

Obama even had the opportunity to close Guantanamo. Didn't consider it important enough to waste the political capital on. Was more concerned about his team retaining power than doing the right thing.

> Government, and political opportunists, can be effective in both good and bad policies/actions.

Effectiveness is only ever used with bad policies. I don't know that I've even come close to figuring out the mechanism for it, but there is one that inevitably tips effectiveness towards ends malevolent. If you were to plot out historical leaders for how effective they were on some sort of spectrum, and then plot them out for how evil they were, it'd be the same spectrum.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by b59831 on Saturday June 24, 2023 @05:07PM (#36462663)
Worked great for USSR, Venezuela, Cuba, ...

FDR also had to deal with things like state's rights... But why worry about nuance?

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by harimau777 on Saturday June 24, 2023 @10:03PM (#36464519)
None of those countries are ones that I think we should be eager to mimic. However, if we are talking about nuance, we should consider:

The USSR rapidly went from a relatively backwards nation that had been devastated by WW2 to a highly industrialized world superpower. That's a lot of success even if the costs weren't worth it.

Cuba has been hamstrung by US embargoes.

Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough about Venezuela to say.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by barry-cotter on Saturday June 24, 2023 @10:48PM (#36464737)
> The USSR rapidly went from a relatively backwards nation that had been devastated by WW2 to a highly industrialized world superpower.

Imperial Russia was one of the most powerful countries in the world prior to WW1 and industrialising very rapidly. One of the reasons the Germans went for it when they did was because they knew that any later they could not beat the Russian Empire. To manage to become a “highly industrialised world superpower” starting with the Russian Empire of 1913 is not an achievement.

> Cuba has been hamstrung by US embargoes.

No other countries embargo the US and oceanic transport is so cheap they transport onions to Ireland from Australia at a profit. Cuba is a dump because of its government, not because of the US.

> Unfortunately I’m not knowledgeable enough about Venezuela to say.

Pretty standard communist story. Secret police, middle class and educated flee in their millions, economy collapses.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by watwut on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:21AM (#36465754)
Imperial Russia was breaking down and on the brink of collapse ...until they violently collapsed. They were also behind western countries technologically and by pretty much all aspects. That includes military being one massive mess with horrible conditions for soldiers and comparatively larger looses.

Same thing, west can not go in and occupy current Russia either, but that does not make the country any less dysfunctional mess comparatively. Same with imperial Russia.

Re:Culture eats policyiculty of gov software procurement by pdonis on Saturday June 24, 2023 @05:12PM (#36462695)
> Maybe you don’t like the outcomes, but it can’t be argued that much was accomplished.

So you're perfectly OK with a government that accomplishes a lot of things that should not have been accomplished, as long as it does so efficiently?

To give just one example: FDR's administration systematically concealed from the American public the true nature of the Soviet Union, which, even before World War II started, had already killed many millions more of its own people than Nazi Germany would kill by the end of WW II, and sent to concentration camps many millions more still. FDR and his administration knew this because FDR had been sending top advisers of his over to the Soviet Union to meet with Stalin all during the 1930s, and Stalin was not at all reticent about explaining his grand plans for sanitizing his country of dissidents. Concealing all this was the only reason why the American public accepted the Soviet Union as an ally in WW II (and even then the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had to be whitewashed as a temporary aberration by an otherwise reliable ally, instead of the cynical manipulation that it actually was).

And the result of that was that a war which was started in order to free Eastern Europe from a totalitarian dictatorship, Nazi Germany, left Eastern Europe in the hands of an even worse totalitarian dictatorship, the Soviet Union. In short, the bloodiest, costliest war in human history was a failure, and that failure is directly attributable to FDR and his administration. Oh, it was all done efficiently, yes: everybody was so convinced that it was a great outcome that, after the end of WW II, Eisenhower sat next to Stalin and watched a parade of the Red Army through Red Square in Moscow and told Stalin how great it was, and the New York Times gushed over it. Ok by you?