A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm.

I told my 10 year old son that one day his life might depend on being able to recognise danger and not follow the herd. I said that might mean you staying out of the cave even if the teacher and all the other students went in, called you names, etc.

He rightly pointed out that would be almost impossible such is the power of peer pressure. Still I hope if that day comes he remembers it.

You are right and your son is also right. As a father of sons I share your concerns and I hope that I'm able to give them the capability to withstand that peer pressure. I've been - and still am - subject to this on account of not drinking alcohol, smoking or using drugs. To the point that it becomes ridiculous ('don't be boring'). This has been a recurring thing since my teenage years and I really don't get why people feel the need to pressure others into joining them in their stupidity. Just like I don't push them to behave like I do.

But it's been tough, on occasion and I can see the point that your son makes, and I hope with you that if that day comes that he will remember it. FWIW you can tell him this internet stranger agrees with his dad and that peer pressure can be overcome.

> A few weeks ago there was a tragic caving accident at a local school here where a boy drowned when the outdoor adventure group entered the caves even as flood waters were rising from a storm.

That's awful, and if there's one thing that I learned from Thai cave rescue a few years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tham_Luang_cave_rescue) it's that you never want to go swimming in caves when it might start raining.

I write about the propensity of adolescents worldwide to take unreasonable risks in here:

https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/how-about-not-overcoming...

it isn't just Americans or even First Worlders. In some cultures they're not able to do it, but they all want to. And it's -- guess what? -- peer pressure that makes them do it. Brain scans show that they recognize the danger as well as adults do, but they're more susceptible to the peer pressure.

It's ok to be afraid. No one had to go down to 12,500 feet to see the Titanic.

A father at least got it, flat out refusing to send his son on that trip, he survived.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/132006337/dad-who-stopped-son...

Yep, a helicopter pilot used to doing real risk assessments.

Resisting peer pressure is a life long skill, eventually it just merges with one’s sense of ethics and duty.

Are you in Whangarei? The incident at the Abbey caves was really so tragic and preventable. I still don't get what went through the teachers heads, it's to rainy to go rock climbing, so we go caving instead?!

Yep, I hope some solid information about their risk assessment process comes out.

The kid's father seems to bear a lot of responsibility in his son's demise.

> In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the 19-year-old university student accompanying his father on the expedition expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said Thursday in an interview.

> Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.

> But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate's 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father's Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/titanic-submersible-shahw...

Ugh, that's so sad. Dying to please your old man. He seems to have had the best intuition about the safety risks involved then.

That or he still thought it was safe but was scared regardless.

Even though everyone knows flying commercially is incredibly safe, lots of people are still anxious about it. Its not like this kid, or maybe any of the other customers, knew of any of the safety concerns and just thought it was as safe as flying.

Flying commercial is safe.

Its also good to remember the titanium wings bear the full weight of the plane.

50% of the wings on a 787 are carbon fiber. Which was tested far above loads before failing.

When corners aren't cut building the planes, and Boeing has never cut corn... oh, crud.

Almost the full weight. The fuselage typically contributes in the neighborhood of 10% of the lift.

Sad, maybe. Seems like one of the best ways to go. Respect.

I doubt it felt like a good way to go to someone who was scared to go on the thing in the first place. Maybe it went from no indications of a problem to near instantaneous implosion in a moment, but I kind of doubt it. I’m guessing that carbon fiber was anything but silent as it approached the moment of catastrophic failure. I’d like to think they didn’t know what was about to happen, but it seems unlikely.

This was one of the reasons I always hoped their deaths were as quick as could be. As a parent myself, the idea of looking my child in the eyes for days on end, knowing that I’d condemned them to death with my own hubris… I can’t imagine anything more miserable.

> Carbon is fantastic stuff if used properly, used improperly it will seem to be perfect right up to the point where it fails catastrophically.

It blows my mind that anyone thought it was a good idea to make a deep-sea submersible out of the stuff.

Carbon's tendency to abruptly fail without warning was a source of significant anxiety whenever I'd go riding the more aggressive trails on my ibis mojo hd3. And that wasn't a certain death outcome should the carbon let go...

Also people have been making bikes out of carbon for a while and reputable brands know what they're doing.

And even then. If you buy a carbon bike second hand (which I would advise against) you'll have to do an absolutely minute inspection to ensure there are no cracks, especially the front fork and all the places where there are inserts are excellent spots for hairline cracks to develop.