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Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by carlosjobim on Thursday June 22, 2023 @05:34PM (#36439349)
People in Europe will plan their life around best exploiting government monetary benefits, so I'm not sure if I can really agree with your point. From things like deciding what month to get pregnant in order to maximize some welfare benefit, to entire businesses specializing in getting corporate welfare instead of actually producing anything, to farmers growing stuff they have no need for in order to get over a square meter threshold to increase their subsidy. I've had the misfortune of listening to hours upon hours of these boring conversations, with everyday people giving each other tips to get as much as possible from the government. Wether it's a financial benefit or the benefit of getting more days to stay at home on your couch and watch TV.

Give me the American flavor of greed any day. At least some great ideas and some great stories come from it.

Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by nuancebydefault on Thursday June 22, 2023 @05:56PM (#36439625)
I live and work in Europe, even in a country with one of the best corporate and government wellfare. It is true that a lot of people think about how to exploit the system regularly. That said, i am not one of them (at least not for a big amount), and a lot of people really enjoy being more relaxed about the possibility of getting ill or loosing a job, without fear of bankruptcy. This while liking their job and putting a lot of effort doing it well. So i guess some bias kicked in by having been surrounded by people of the former type...
Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by jxramos on Thursday June 22, 2023 @06:32PM (#36440081)
that would be great to actually turn into an investigative documentary in video format. I'd be curious to get a taste of experiencing what you experienced.
Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by carlosjobim on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:44AM (#36447489)
It's not terribly exciting, from the conversations of everyday people that I have had to listen to, some examples:

A couple of house owners discussing putting solar heating on their roofs because the government launched a subsidy for it and one of them heard about it. With the subsidy the panels would start giving a modest return on the investment after an estimated 25 years. These people had no interest before in "green energy".

A young wife being asked by her aunts when she's going to have kids. The answer: I have to finish my degree, then work for at least two years so I can qualify for the maximum benefits when I go off on maternity leave. In the context of getting that degree and job for that specific purpose.

The most boring of all was listening to small business owners and their endless small time scheming with putting everything as a business expense to deduct on their taxes. I'm all for not paying a dime in taxes, but what kind of life do you end up having?

So the above is just life, everyday life for everyday greedy people. That's why I wrote give me the American flavor of greed any day. That greed that goes into creating things like the high tech stuff discussed here on HN every day.

Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by jxramos on Friday June 23, 2023 @01:51PM (#36450126)
Flavor of greed, I like that.

This is an interesting form of market distortion of volition if you will where the confines of self interest take on somewhat strange shapes under specific directed ends and incentives offered by government programs. This is in contrast to unspecific non-directed open ended ends of a free(er) market economy letting self interest take on whatever shape it will unprovoked.

I wonder if that open ended structure encourages or at least gets out of the way of people who do the creative value producing thing. Interesting thoughts about the mental path of least resistance and where the thoughts of a subpopulation find themselves when shaped and prodded in a certain direction.

Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by stubybubs on Friday June 23, 2023 @02:42AM (#36443610)
In America it's the corporations that do all this maximizing of government subsidies and regulations, only they get to write those regs themselves through regulatory capture. If you want subsidies, the US is only slightly behind the EU for farm subsidies.

So you know. Same thing except all that money flows to the top, and the bottom still has to think about medical bankruptcy.

Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by carlosjobim on Friday June 23, 2023 @11:07AM (#36447864)
Europe and America are not so different in all those things. Regulatory capture is alive and well on both continents. But there exists a kind of spirit and individualism and entrepreneurship in America that you hardly ever see in Europe. Fueled by greed for sure, but the greed of wanting to change the world and become a billionaire, instead of European small-time greed of wanting to buy some condos and let your children live on rent income.

For all the good and bad, a service like Uber could never have been invented in Europe. I remember when it was accepted that taking a taxi was just for rich people.

Re:Money Is the Megaphone of Identity (2020) by deterministic on Saturday June 24, 2023 @02:14AM (#36456072)
Well I prefer to live in a democracy. The US stopped being a democracy a long time ago:

“Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.”

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...