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Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by andrewstuart on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:43AM (#36431266)
So Sam Altman gets in front of governments around the world, alarms everyone with science fiction about how he’s created the technology that might be the doom of the human race, asks for regulation, now doesn’t want regulation even though he’s stirred up a hornets nest of government panic. There’s leadership for you.

(Edit remove criticism of Altman too negative)

I suppose I should be careful saying stuff about zuckerberg like that. He might want to cage fight me.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by ironrabbit on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:07AM (#36431568)
> the company pushed back against a proposed amendment to the AI Act that would have classified generative AI systems such as ChatGPT and Dall-E as “high risk” if they generated text or imagery that could “falsely appear to a person to be human generated and authentic.” [...] The company argued that it would be sufficient to instead rely on another part of the Act, that mandates AI providers sufficiently label AI-generated content and be clear to users that they are interacting with an AI system.

This sounds pretty reasonable? I don't think it's hypocritical to be talking about the doom of humanity and also arguing that GPT-3, a 3-year old model, should not be classified as "high-risk" in that sense.

Even if you disagree, questioning Altman's leadership and calling him an "empty soul" over this kind of regulatory detail is not adding substance to the discussion imo.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by PedroBatista on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:43AM (#36432057)
Given his past and present moves ( not what he says publicly ), calling him an "empty soul" are pretty kind words.

Also, the playing dumb card and the "I'm just a tech bro full of innocent dreams" story has already been done to death by the bros from the previous cycle ( think Zuckerberg and his peers ).

It's a scumbag move that most of his peers actually do too and it should at least be publicized and called out.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by TheHumanist on Friday June 23, 2023 @08:16AM (#36445792)
Could you elaborate on why calling him an empty soul are pretty kind words?
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by PedroBatista on Friday June 23, 2023 @01:05PM (#36449576)
Because an empty soul has no wills, so no malice or greed.

Kind of like the usual "I'm not an asshole, I have Aspergers.."

Sam Altman is none of these things.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by hospitalJail on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:20AM (#36431744)
I think lots of us are feeling the same way about ClosedAI, regulations aside.

Scary to think how much power they have choosing winners and losers. I never got GPT4 API access.

Until the local models get up to speed, we are at the whim of this company deciding who wins and who loses.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by andrewstuart on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:12AM (#36431625)
Edited to remove criticism
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by shubb on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:14AM (#36432491)
When Altman says high risk, he means only Microsoft should be allowed to run an AI in case the plot of Terminator happens.

When the EU say high risk, they mean that an AI pacemaker should be explainable enough that you can guarantee it won't randomly kill people. They also mean that low risk applications such as AI holiday recommendation or fiction writing should be more or less unregulated.

Which one is reasonable?

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by bioemerl on Thursday June 22, 2023 @11:28AM (#36433667)
Not really. If your intent is to truly ensure content is labeled open AI isn't able to ensure that since you can just copy paste their output.

They want the law and they want to promise safety while not being impacted by the overbearing regulation they've invited onto the rest of us.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by lisasays on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:54AM (#36431398)
There’s leadership for you.

Yup, and this was of course the whole point of getting up on a soap box and "calling for" regulation in the first place.

To make sure that at the end of the day, this "regulation" was thoroughly defanged, declawed, and ultimately -- pliable to the company's interest.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by dfsl on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:00AM (#36431484)
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by golergka on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:05AM (#36431536)
That's not how companies usually lobby for regulations. Much more often, they get regulation that is full of fangs, laws and rules which made specifically for them and that they can navigate with their huge legal departments, but which would deter any smaller competitors.

So all of this "end of civilisation" talk from OpenAI and other AI company leaders is nothing more than a competitive play to secure their position in the space.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by Matticus_Rex on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:05AM (#36432376)
Yes, ignore the fact that many of these people have been talking about this risk since long before they had the companies! Since sometimes companies lobby for regulation to create barriers to entry and carveouts, any public statements about AI risk must simply be lies to hobble competition!
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by edgyquant on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:18AM (#36432542)
Why is this a bad assumption? It’s in the interest to get regulation that grants them a moat.
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by staunton on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:33PM (#36440712)
Both things can be true at the same time.
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by Matticus_Rex on Monday June 26, 2023 @12:10PM (#36481668)
Self-interest is important to note, but self-interest doesn't automatically mean they're disingenuous. Having been worried about alignment for many years prior to working on an AI startup is an example of great evidence that they're actually worried rather than merely incentivized.
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by kalkin on Thursday June 22, 2023 @10:30AM (#36432721)
I don't quite understand how that's supposed to be consistent with OpenAI lobbying to weaken regulation.
Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by that_guy_iain on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:00AM (#36431474)
What I've realised is at a certain point companies grow to the size where for senior management to comptently do their job to the best of their abilities for what will benefit their company the most they need to reduce the amount they care about others.

This isn't meant to be a dig at them or say they're evil or whatnot. It just seems to be true. For example, a company I worked forced through a migration project that was just constantly going on and on. It was paralyzing the company so to speak. They couldn't do marketing drives, improve the product, make new deals, fullfill requests from clients, etc. Forcing through a half done migration obiviously screws pretty much all the folk who have to work on things. However, the company needed it done. The parent company wanted to sell and couldn't sell a company where the product is basically still in development with a big 18-month overdue project (it was scheduled for 3-months, whoever told anyone that was possible should have been fired). For the benefit of the company forcing through the migration made sense. They could start fullfilling client requests, sell the company, etc. But for the average worker, it meant a large amount of extra work with lots of things no longer working at all. One of the product managers told an account manager she would have to send invoices manually to 500 companies. Invoicing was broken. That's how broken this application was. But for the company, caring that you're overworking employees and increasing stress doesn't make sense in the short term. So from the employers point of view, forcing it through is what was needed. If they didn't they would have been fired. Fundamentally, they did the job they were paid for. To the detriment of the well being of others.

And I think the same is true here. For Altman to do what benefits OpenAI, he has to do things that are to the detriment of everyone else. The Regulations that the EU want to put in place will almost certainly in the future be seen as too weak. And they probably all make sense and Altman probably knows they do. But it's harmful for the company and he has a job to do. For him to be good at his job, he has to ingore what is benefical to everyone else and only care about what is benefical to the company.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by staunton on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:44PM (#36440809)
I generally agree (although I'm not sure if the example really illustrates it enough to justify it's length). However, this is an incomplete or misleading view on three counts.

First, it sounds like you're justifyimg immortal behavior, which I think wasn't your intention, but the wording isn't so clear on that. The same argument can be given (and would apply) to saying a concentration camp guard has to do what they do in order to "be good at the job". That is a relevant explanation of an important dynamic at play. It doesn't make it OK.

Second, being a scumbag has a cost (e.g. reputation) even from the cold-hearted and immoral poit of view of disembodied money. Society controls this calculation and is not powerless against it.

Third, disembodied money has no agency. Concretely, the mechanism is a manifestation of diffusion of (moral) responsibility. The board and shareholders are not absolved from moral responsibility by some divine right to make maximum profit on their investment. Neither are they justified in ignoring the responsibility they have by diffusing it, neither by choice nor carelessness and willful ignorance.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by itairall on Thursday June 22, 2023 @09:51AM (#36432162)
It is absurd to believe there is no danger of over regulation from government that a company would need to push back on.

I guess you just take news headlines at face value though.

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by gmerc on Friday June 23, 2023 @02:04AM (#36443368)
It’s an open secret that Elon is running around trying to get a foundational shop off the ground and it doesn’t take rocket scientist to understand that the chaos monkey won’t be paying any alignment tax

Given those dynamics it’s entirely obvious why Sam may want to force a level playing field - they can only lose against both open source and WhiteSupremacistDogwhistle GPT

Re:OpenAI Lobbied the E.U. To Water Down AI Regulation by CatWChainsaw on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @08:16AM (#36505306)
I don't know if any criticism can be "too negative". All of these SV "luminaries" are on an ego trip and willing to use functioning global civilization as collateral.