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Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by idkyall on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:59AM (#36358863)
Look, I'm not the biggest Mark Zuckerberg fan or anything, but I don't think the thus-far questionable business decision to pivot to the metaverse is quite the same level as having an very public mental breakdown and making anti-semitic remarks
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by iaw on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:32PM (#36359444)
I apologize, I should have been clearer.

I don't mean Kanye's public antics and statements. I meant his questionable design/musical/performance choices.

Mark has lost over $30B on Metaverse supported by a stagnating ad business. Apple just launched an AR product that seems quite a bit better than the Meta options. John Carmack publicly complained about the reasons he left work at Meta which demonstrate a lack of vision at the leadership levels. It's unclear how the Metaverse will play out at this point but it feels like a solution looking from a problem rather than something people really want.

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by kipchak on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:37PM (#36360661)
I think the problem Metaverse potentially (partially) solves is the conflict between resource consumption and available supply in consumer culture. In the 2000s there was optimism for the strength of consumer culture, ("for the first time in history there are no practical limits to consumerism."[1]) but we're now beginning to reconcile the desire for infinite growth against finite resources.

Digital consumerism is a potential lifeline, as digital products are close to cost free to produce compared to real luxury goods or travel, allowing much higher numbers of people to own them. As people generally become poorer and real consumption grows out of reach, the metaverse potentially serves as a second level of prosperity and success for the have nots in the real world.

Some early examples of this are Second Life, valuation of digital items like skins in games and travel and dining POV YouTubers. I think most would prefer the real deal, but if it's unavailable a fake version can be made good enough.

[1]https://cup.columbia.edu/book/an-all-consuming-century/97802...

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by MattRix on Friday June 16, 2023 @03:32PM (#36362538)
There’s a lot to pick apart here. How much money do you think Apple spent on their VR product vs Meta? Sure Apple’s is better, but it also costs SEVEN times more. Do you really think Apple’s will sell more units any time soon? Meta has already sold tens of millions of quests.

Also Carmack is a great programmer, but there’s no reason to think he knows a thing about the market and business strategy.

Sure there’s the whole metaverse thing, but even without that, people are getting value out of the Quest right now, playing Beat Saber etc.

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by iaw on Friday June 16, 2023 @09:12PM (#36366148)
I'll reply point by point:

> How much money do you think Apple spent on their VR product vs Meta? Sure Apple’s is better, but it also costs SEVEN times more. Do you really think Apple’s will sell more units any time soon? Meta has already sold tens of millions of quests.

Oculus Quest has sold almost 20M units over 4 years of existence across all products in the line. The original iPhone was priced at a point at that point considered absurd. Note that oculus started off with the rift at $600 but requiring a multi-thousand dollar computer. I'm not an Apple fanboy/apologist but this is a straw man argument.

> Also Carmack is a great programmer, but there’s no reason to think he knows a thing about the market and business strategy.

This is disingenuous. John Carmack founded id which produced modern 3d and FPS as we know it today. He's not just a great programmer but he was a successful businessman before Facebook existed. One, he understands the market and business strategy at least as well as Mark given he spends more time on the matter as his primary focus. Two, his complaints were not about market and business strategy but about inefficiencies in development processes that no one in the company besides C-levels are empowered to resolve.

> Sure there’s the whole metaverse thing, but even without that, people are getting value out of the Quest right now, playing Beat Saber etc.

Let's be clear here: even if each quest was $500 and had zero CoGS that would be $10B revenue spread over 4 years when Mark spent >$30B in less than that. I'll eat a humble pie if he makes this make sense but it was not a sound decision given the way he structured the approach.

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by baby on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:09PM (#36365239)
> Mark has lost over $30B on Metaverse supported by a stagnating ad business

We must live in different worlds. They invested $30B in research, have a clear advantage now that Apple is trying to enter the market, and is still printing money like there's no tomorrow via their ad business.

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by aprdm on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:24PM (#36359306)
Yeah exactly. I have issues with what social media does to people and some of what Mark has done.. but he is nowhere near my level of despise for Musk, Kanye or others in that circle.
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by kulahan on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:31PM (#36359436)
Kanye is suffering from mental illness and was off his medication while simultaneously having millions of dollars, adoring fans, and cameras in his face 24/7/365. I think most of us would do something stupid in that situation. I don't really get why you would "despise" someone for being ill.
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by aprdm on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:17PM (#36360270)
I doubt most of us would support exterminating people if we were sick, but who knows
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by skyyler on Friday June 16, 2023 @03:42PM (#36362671)
You'd be surprised at how easily otherwise intelligent people can get swept up into violent ideologies.

Bobby Fischer is just one example of a bright mind corrupted by ideology. There are countless.

Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by kulahan on Friday June 16, 2023 @03:54PM (#36362898)
I'm not sure you've got a solid grasp of mental illness and how it affects the way you think.
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by predictabl3 on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:13PM (#36364655)
I don't know if you're unaware of the entire saga or if you've done some stuff you regret in the past but going on Alex Jones with Nick Fuentes is not something I'm giving a mental-health-pass on. I'm open to feedback that I'm an ableist jerk but I'm also not holding my breath.
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by iaw on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:36PM (#36359527)
I just want to remind you that of the three people listed only Mark took actions that exacerbated a genocide (Rohingya in Myanmar).
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by velp on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:14PM (#36360236)
And Elon's lithium mines aren't similar? Or Kanye's open support of rhetoric linked to the Holocaust?
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by aprdm on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:18PM (#36360298)
Musk melding on turkey elections and other countries isn’t too far off
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by bgun on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:31PM (#36360553)
This is an unfair take. Whatever you think of Meta as a corporation or Zuckerberg as a person, neither caused the Rohingya crisis, much less the conflict; and while it's fair to argue that FB/Meta could have done more to stem hate speech on the platform, your phrasing intentionally villainizes a single individual for an entire ongoing, complex sociopolitical situation.
Re:Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking thei... by iaw on Friday June 16, 2023 @09:16PM (#36366171)
I have intimate knowledge of FB during that period. Any voice of concern about abuses of the service were repressed as a "we'll deal with that when it's a problem."

Concerns about lack of global moderation and enforcement were well known before the massacre. Mark and leadership made a choice akin to what the major oil producers did regarding global warming: kick the can until it's a problem.