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Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by passion__desire on Friday June 16, 2023 @10:54AM (#36357596)
What if, future AIs gain capabilities to sort, categorize, discriminate, deduplicate and rank new post-2022 datasets? When we ask for a text to be human produced, what we are really asking for is novelty and groundedness to facts. Most of the opinions on reddit is regurgitated hive mind thoughts.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by juujian on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:02AM (#36357749)
Once you have a reliable model to detect AI-content, you also have a new tool to train AI-models against. So ironically, any tool to detect AI content will just serve to make AI content more difficult to detect.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by passion__desire on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:07AM (#36357857)
The new AI models will seek novelty[0], pieces of facts not recorded before. It will directly hone in on newness not how it was delivered. Writing styles could be another vector in which novelty could be detected but that's a different matter.

[0] https://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/sice2009.pdf

Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by bee_rider on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:08AM (#36357883)
But the ability to detect, say, content generated by pre-2033 chatbots will open up a whole decade of previously contaminated content.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by PartiallyTyped on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:06AM (#36357835)
Which you can use to train a better model to detect AI content.

I wonder whether some models fit this - well, you could certainly call it adversarial, and obviously generative - framework?

Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by collegeburner on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:49PM (#36359779)
right, you're describing a gan-like system/positional arms race. which is how adversarial tech always develops. doesn't mean we won't get better AI out of it.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by ChatGTP on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:00AM (#36357726)
Not the valuable stuff, the the world evolves and there’s an almost infinite supply of new stuff to talk about.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by dylan604 on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:42AM (#36358531)
and yet here we are like a broken record talking about chatbots
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by retrocryptid on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:34PM (#36359472)
A Comment section post, like language, is a virus.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by ChatGTP on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:39PM (#36364927)
What should we talk about then ?
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by pessimizer on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:19PM (#36359193)
I don't think that the ability to fuck something implies that there's an ability to unfuck something. I don't think there's any necessity to think that there will be an continually increasing ability to distinguish faked from real in past data.

The analogy would be how we can't distinguish fantasy, parable, and propaganda in histories written in the past, even though we have a lot more technology than they had 2500 years ago. We rule out most things that seem fantastic, like dragons or people rising from the dead (maybe the equivalent of finding extreme statistical improbabilities), while also entertaining the possibility that the past could have been radically different than we see it now, and some of the things we ruled out may have been real. We make suppositions based on the political alignments of the historians, and whether they could have had access to the information that they claim to record. We use geological and anthropological records to check credibility, and use confirmations found as sources for priors when judging other, maybe unrelated, things that said by that same scholar.

We've seen what current AI does when confronted by a situation like that, it fills in the gaps with plausible fantasy and hallucinates.

edit: not that there isn't low hanging fruit in detecting AI creations, but that's just a sign of early AI. AIs can't even draw hands.

Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by retrocryptid on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:32PM (#36359442)
Aye. Enshitification and Data Pollution appear to be thermodynamic processes. Easy to go one way, hard to go the other.
Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by passion__desire on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:01PM (#36360009)
How about a new metaphor, complexification. The maximal complex state is useless and the initial simple state is also useless. Interesting patterns arise only in the middle like while mixing coffee and cream [0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgAtvbRqckQ

Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by retrocryptid on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:22PM (#36360390)
+1 on Sean Carroll. I think he overestimates the strength of human cognition, but that's not so vile sin as underestimating it. And he's a very good speaker I terms of getting his point across.

But yeah. There are definitely entropy analogies in software development. A couple of places I've worked at I've described as "brownian." Engineering would move forward a bit then marketing would change the requirements and we would make progress towards the new requirements, but before long we would get new requirements. If you mapped out progress starting at the origin and then put different objectives along the peremiter of a unit circle, progress would look like the random walk of an atom in a warm gas.

Those are the places where you ship a product when progress accidentally meets expectation.

Re:AI is going to eat itself: Experiment shows people traini... by passion__desire on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:57PM (#36360914)
A substandard programmer working within time constraints will produce bad results.