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Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by JohnMakin on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:15AM (#36354673)
I think part of the reason this trend has been going on, and I have observed a similar thing as you point out here, is that businesses have tried to get rid of this “role” for a long time now and by constantly reinventing and renaming it. They have failed miserably. When people ask what I do, I call myself a systems engineer or “backend engineer” if that makes more sense to them. it’s more apt for what is actually needed and asked of me.
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by boffinAudio on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:28AM (#36354778)
Things went wrong when we started calling Computerization, "Information Technology".

This was a totally misguided re-branding of the field. It attracted bureaucratic personalities and classist managerial types, and utterly destroyed the field.

Like you, I couch my job description: I'm a "Systems Software Developer, I develop software systems" .. because its true, thats what I do, even if its a majority of the time working on embedded projects.

And if someone then responds with "ooh, so you're in IT", I immediately go to another corner of the party and avoid them like the intolerable bores they are ..

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by flushit on Friday June 16, 2023 @08:17AM (#36355335)
> And if someone then responds with "ooh, so you're in IT", I immediately go to another corner of the party and avoid them like the intolerable bores they are ..

No need to be arrogant towards people outside the field. My grandma doesn't know the difference between the random IT guy that updates your Windows printer driver and a Linux kernel dev, but I'd still not call her an "intolerable bore".

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by FrustratedMonky on Friday June 16, 2023 @08:37AM (#36355558)
Guess Problem is that a lot of managers also don't know, and have same understanding as your Grandma. I've seen plenty of companies take a very highly paid engineer and have them install printer drivers on peoples PC's.
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by reedf1 on Friday June 16, 2023 @09:33AM (#36356322)
I was getting paid £200k/yr as a Software Engineer for a company with an unresponsive offshore IT help desk. I would often spend a few hours (!!) a day helping various stakeholders with their desktops/printers/email. This was an insanely ineffective but absolutely necessary use of my time (I was managing a small development team), sadly my IT efforts were clearly more appreciated than development.

Hard to convince management that a dedicated onsite IT would be required - especially when they think it is your job already.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by flushit on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:54AM (#36358761)
I suppose there is a difference between companies that are tech to the core (where everybody in the management chain up to CEO is actually a sw eng) or a company where software engineering / programming is just a dept. somewhere on the side.

Gotta appreciate if you're working in the former. Drawback is you can't BS your way through issues. Everybody above me in the chain (which is like 4 people) could write a quicksort blindly. If anybody tries any BS they don't have their job much longer.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by flushit on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:51AM (#36358701)
> Guess Problem is that a lot of managers also don't know, and have same understanding as your Grandma.

Well, nobody forces you to work for a company with managers like that. I personally wouldn't.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by FrustratedMonky on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:19PM (#36364735)
That is a worthless recommendation.

That's kind of like saying, even slaves have a choice. Death being the option available to all.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by flushit on Sunday June 18, 2023 @07:25AM (#36379180)
There are enough companies out there without such managers.

Drawing a comparison to slavery is quite shocking, tbh.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by FrustratedMonky on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @09:18AM (#36403522)
The term 'wage slave' is commonly used. It is not always a humorous take on the situation. If you live or have skills where you have a lot of options. Then that is good for you, not the default for everyone.
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by TheNewsIsHere on Friday June 16, 2023 @10:08AM (#36356816)
I go a step beyond. When I’m interacting with “non-IT” folks, I say just I’m “in IT”.

It isn’t a problem for my ego to do that, and it’s something that’s both relatable and typically stops the conversation from revealing anymore about my work (not that there’s really anything to hide, I just enjoy my privacy and no, I don’t want to meet your “computer genius” nephew or fix your phone).

If I’m in a clearly technical group, I’ll go into more detail. I don’t identify myself with the DevOps term though, or sysadmin, or developer. I don’t clearly fit into any of the -currently assumed- definitions of those.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by JohnFen on Friday June 16, 2023 @10:41AM (#36357319)
I'm very similar.

In social situations, I usually just say "I'm into computers". Most people who ask what I do don't really care, they're just engaging in ritualistic small talk anyway. If someone does care, they'll ask clarifying questions.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by devhead on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:03AM (#36357784)
Same here.

I always default to "I work in IT". If that person is in the space I might go into specifics; but even then majority can't relate or understand the role i spend my days working in.

It also has the benefit of coming across as more blue collar and I catch less grief, as the disdaine for tech workers continues to grow.

Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by voidmain0001 on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:35AM (#36358401)
I keep it simple and say that "I fix laptops" since I know that no one wants to hear about infrastructure gluing.
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by boffinAudio on Monday June 19, 2023 @04:33AM (#36388690)
Yeah, that's all well and good until someone asks you to fix their printer .. because "you are an IT guy, you should know .."
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by idkyall on Friday June 16, 2023 @10:38AM (#36357261)
"I make the systems IT uses"
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by boffinAudio on Monday June 19, 2023 @04:34AM (#36388694)
That's the right approach.
Re:DevOps Is Bullshit (2022) by yafbum on Friday June 16, 2023 @10:55AM (#36357616)
I disagree. Data center ops have been completely reinvented by the devops practices. Sure it's a bunch of sysadmins at the start, but a bunch of sysadmins really trying hard to take themselves out of the loop so that things can scale.

A good example is how software releases work. Where I worked 15 years ago, releases were something we could afford to do about four times a year, at night, on the weekends, doing the rollout by logging onto machines and starting them back up, babysitting the rollout. Because rollbacks were catastrophic, an insane amount of time went into QA, so the time between a code change and a release could be easily multiple months. Now I'm at a place where releases are done every day of the week. Rollout steps are largely automated. Rollbacks are mostly drama free. Risk is mitigated through automated canarying (and automated testing before that).

And certainly the business has successfully gotten rid of paying people to log in to servers on a Saturday night to perform a release (which frankly not a lot of people are into in the first place, so everyone wins).