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Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by HDThoreaun on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:32PM (#36317754)
This is an incredibly complicated question, so I'm glad the author put in the work to really try to flesh out the details. In the end I'd say the US's broken legislative system has forced the fed to make some really tough decisions. The decade following the great recession should have been a time of expansionary fiscal policy. Instead of congress investing in our future they argued and accomplished nothing. The board of the fed saw congress's failure and figured "if this country can't execute fiscal policy well at least we can step in with expansionary monetary policy". Came to kick them in the ass when covid rolled around, but it was also arguably responsible for one the best decades of economic growth in human history.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by throw0101b on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:54PM (#36319351)
> The decade following the great recession should have been a time of expansionary fiscal policy. Instead of congress investing in our future they argued and accomplished nothing.

Do is "they" specifically?

Because as I remember it the Republicans wanted to sink a Democratic president, and so hampered/slowed the recovery. And let's forget the right-wing idea of "expansionary austerity":

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansionary_fiscal_contractio...

And the deficit hawks who said that the US had to cut debt or Bad Things would happen (which suddenly wasn't a problem went Trump got into office and tax cuts were desired):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deficit_hawk

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by TexanFeller on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:13PM (#36319512)
> which suddenly wasn't a problem went Trump got into office and tax cuts were desired

There are plenty of us that rage against _both_ parties' negligence when it comes to balancing the budget. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative as us libertarian-ish types say. Lots of us hated Trump for cutting taxes and bullying the fed to lower rates while the economy was already booming.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by mikrl on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:21PM (#36319568)
It’s like the dark sibling of Keynes, eh?

At least Keynesian theory had a notion of slowing an economy that needed slowing, and boosting an economy that needed boosting, through a complementary mechanism.

The poisonous application on the other hand is to boost an economy at capacity, and use the inevitable crash to funnel wealth to… who knows where?

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by WillPostForFood on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:20AM (#36321730)
Deficit hawks remained deficit hawks under Trump, but Trump was definitely not a hawk.

https://rollcall.com/2017/09/06/trump-sides-with-dems-as-deb...

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:43PM (#36319741)
There should have been a lot of expansion at the beginning then a pull back when things started heating up too much. Unfortunately, that never happened under Obama (or we can blame the Obama administration and the Fed for never looking for the right signals), and by the time it was obvious the economy was overheating, Trump was in power.

It would be nice if we could get away from these big boom and big bust cycles. A bit of fiscal discipline could go a long way.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by creato on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:07PM (#36319945)
This is politically impossible in the US. The electorate is too short sighted and will blame the current president for killing the economy no matter how sensible the policy actually is. Democrats maybe make a half hearted attempt at this, but Republicans are nakedly partisan in their economic policy, using outright economic stimulus in the best of times: George Bush's "peace dividend", Trump's tax cuts and pressuring the Fed on interest rates. Of course this was right after he attacked the Fed during Obama's presidency for keeping rates low for political reasons. Until these political games become ineffective on voters, economic policy will be stupid.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:48PM (#36320327)
Ya, we basically get what we vote for. Our political leaders are fiscally not disciplined because we demand them not to be. At best, fiscal discipline is used to fight the otherside’s agenda, like what happened during Bill Clinton’s term coupled with the Republican revolution of 94. That led to a surplus.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by tacocataco on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:12PM (#36320548)
If we got rid of First Past The Post voting, third parties could be viable because there wouldnt be a spoiler effect. More players involved would increase the chances of fresh blood and new ideas.

Instead, we are locked into a 2 party system filled with literal fossils. it's obvious to me when there is a tech related congressional hearing that both mainstream political parties are holding us back.

I guess that was good to have people from the cold war Era involved when Russia started pushing Ukraine around. Like a clock that's frozen in time is right twice a day...

Electoral reform is doable one state at a time, some states already use Rankes Choice voting.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Enginerrrd on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:57PM (#36320869)
Ranked choice voting has led to a stable two party system everywhere it's been tried. Wrong solution if thats the problem you're tying to solve. (Giving third party candidates a chance)

It does tend to reduce polarization of the platforms and drive them to more moderate positions though.

If you want more parties you need a proportional representation system.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by username3 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:10PM (#36320943)
What is a proportional representation system? If the votes splits 40/35/25, winner doesn’t take all? Each party will have representatives 40/35/25?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by midasuni on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:19AM (#36322581)
The latter, meaning none of those three parties have a majority

Obviously doesn’t work for the President, you need tanked choice, runoff, etc

but it does for Congress and senate.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by harimau777 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @07:24AM (#36324224)
Couldn't proportional representation work if the president is selected via electors? Parties get a portion of the electors and then need to form a coalition that has enough electors to select the president.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:50PM (#36320821)
I’m not sure I’m remembering the same thing. I recall quite a bit of infrastructure spending under Obama [1]. It was smaller than needed but Republicans came out heavily against it and then generated the Tea Party wave in the 2010 midterms effectively ending any infrastructure expansion making Obama a lame duck even in his second term (and then followed by the Trump years).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinve...

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:08AM (#36321678)
There was some spending, but not a lot. And just 2 years free rein until things grid locked. Most of Obama’s political capital was spent on healthcare, to mediocre affect unfortunately.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by kortilla on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:48AM (#36322789)
The only spending it was “not a lot” compared to is the years after. It was still more than presidents before.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @10:35AM (#36326658)
Inflation and population growth means that will be true for every president on. Most of the spending in the first two years of his administration was bail the banks out and keep the economy from collapsing. Not much was spent on infrastructure.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:10PM (#36329060)
Comparing one insufficient pile to another more insufficient pile is disingenuously framing the context.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by floydnoel on Thursday June 15, 2023 @08:50AM (#36339720)
it's funny you say that, the entire supposed purpose that the Fed was created for was to do just that: get rid of the boom and bust cycles. Unfortunately they never figured it out.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by deepzn on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:00PM (#36319883)
A decade of government spending on critical infrastructure at low interest rates was missed.

Edit: Want to add also, the rich got richer as monetary policy flowed into capital markets, while inflation increased hurting the poor the most in the last couple years.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by judge2020 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:54PM (#36320841)
Sounds like Congress achieved exactly what it set out to do.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by H8crilA on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:54AM (#36322371)
Seriously, it's no longer even funny to us Europeans how bad your infrastructure is. I always thought it's because the population density is much lower in the US, but I don't believe any more that it is the primary reason.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by nayuki on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:17PM (#36331112)
No, it is due to population density. If your country has 2× or 4× the amount of road area per capita but not correspondingly more taxes per capita, the infrastructure is going to suffer. Strong Towns ( https://www.strongtowns.org/ ) has many articles on this topic.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by midasuni on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:14AM (#36322532)
Didn’t you just have a bridge collapse on a major highway?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by irrational on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:36AM (#36322704)
You mean the one where a tanker truck full of gasoline caught fire directly underneath it?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by midasuni on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:36AM (#36322709)
No idea, I saw a headline
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by mint2 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @10:42AM (#36326745)
It’s generally a good idea to look into events a tad more than just reading a headline before running around posting about them.

This is especially true when the headline seems to confirm one’s beliefs about something. In fact, most of the USA’s problems if not the worlds are in a big part due to people having that level of engagement.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:20PM (#36328231)
Shouldn’t critical bridges on interstates be built with such eventualities in mind?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by irrational on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:47PM (#36330687)
I imagine they do consider eventualities, but some things are extremely unlikely. Could someone set off a nuclear bomb under the bridge? Sure. Is it likely? No. Could a tanker truck full of gasoline catch on fire and sit directly under this bridge? Yes. Is it likely? No.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by inferiorhuman on Thursday June 15, 2023 @06:16AM (#36338458)
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by vlovich123 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:01PM (#36320445)
> Came to kick them in the ass when covid rolled around, but it was also arguably responsible for one the best decades of economic growth in human history.

Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by WillPostForFood on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @01:12AM (#36321705)
Yes, the planet got destroyed.

What does this even mean? The planet is not destroyed. US Carbon emissions actually went down over that decade. The environment generally is better in many ways than previous decades.

Acid rain is gone:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/acid-rain-environment-earth-day...

Ozone hole is shrinking:

https://www.nasa.gov/esnt/2022/ozone-hole-continues-shrinkin...

In 1981 in LA there were 4 good air quality days for the whole year, 56 moderate days, and 159 stage 5 alert, Very Unhealthy or Hazardous Air Days.

In 2021 there were 41 Good days, 228 Moderate days, and only 1 Very Unhealthy or Hazardous Air Days.

https://www.laalmanac.com/environment/ev01b.php

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by saurik on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:00AM (#36321983)
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by sh34r on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:04AM (#36322004)
Meanwhile, last week in NYC: https://secretnyc.co/nyc-air-quality-photos/

Cool and normal! Nothing to see here, folks.

But of course, the planet is fine! The people are f'ed! The planet's not going anywhere, we are! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmo8sh77G6Y

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by modo_mario on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @05:35AM (#36323504)
>US Carbon emissions actually went down over that decade.

The US per capita emissions are still only preceded by micronations and petrostates as far as I'm aware. In fact they're still double of those in the EU despite few countries like Poland relying heavily on fossil fuels. Chinese people have managed to surpass the europeans but even they emit about half as much as Americans and are slowing down.

>The environment generally is better in many ways than previous decades.

It feels a bit like replying to a fictitious argument about declining life expectancy by saying "but car & gun deaths are down!".

I care a bit less for more localized short term bound air quality but it's absolutely great that the ozone hole is shrinking and such. Humanity managed to get togheter and make changes that had great impact. I however feel like we managed to do this because the changes needed were comparatively small.

Now please do not under any circumstances use these victories as argumentation to push back against fixing different issues.

The decline in insect biomass in many places is horrifying and as far as I know still accelerating.

Our fossil fuel extraction is still growing. We'll see it decline when it starts getting harder to extract in a few years yes but I don't see that as reason to pat ourselves on the back. It's not a problem that fixes itself relatively quickly necessarily in the same way that stopping the use of CFK's was. Natural sequestration will remain very very slow. Taking it out of the carbon cycle in a good way is many times more difficult than releasing it. We could have given ourselves so so much more leeway by tackling the easier parts of this dependence but didn't and we still often don't.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by dukeyukey on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:33AM (#36323867)
> The US per capita emissions are still only preceded by micronations and petrostates as far as I'm aware

Also Canada/Australia (I'm guessing similar car-centric transportation is to blame) and Estonia (because of an oil-based power grid).

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by modo_mario on Thursday June 15, 2023 @04:29AM (#36337792)
Apologies. I would have admittedly ignored Estonia for still being a small outlier but you're correct about Canada and Australia. Seems they overtook the US in 2015.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by WillPostForFood on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @02:00PM (#36329884)
The US per capita emissions are still only preceded by micronations and petrostates as far as I'm aware.

Yes and it is dropping dramatically - getting better not worse. I.e., the decade being berated for being bad for the planet was good for the planet.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1049662/fossil-us-carbon...

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by modo_mario on Thursday June 15, 2023 @04:26AM (#36337777)
>The decade being berated for being bad for the planet was good for the planet.

The one where fossil fuel extraction increased year over year.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by netbioserror on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:24PM (#36321051)
Broken legislative system? Not only was it designed to lock up in a split-Congress scenario, it was also explicitly given the responsibility of minting coinage and the Constitution was written silent on the issue of a central bank (which via the 10th Amendement thus is prohibited to the federal government and reserved to the states). The debate on the very nature of the country's money goes back to its founding. But here you are making very European assumptions about the role of legislature and central banking.

You're free to advocate for those roles, but don't conflate the circumstances with dysfunction. An active legislature and the Fed's existence are diametrically opposed to the federal government's principal design.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by adsfgiodsnrio on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:41PM (#36321143)
Call me a heretic, but the Holy Founding Fathers were not infallible. Yes, even Lord Washington, praise be unto Him, erred. Perhaps even Jefferson Christus!
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by zeroonetwothree on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:44PM (#36321170)
It's a pretty far-fetched argument that the federal government doesn't have the power to create a central bank. Who are you to argue against John Marshall?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by tastyfreeze on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:31AM (#36321483)
The Constitution says they don't. The US government only has the powers explicitly granted to it in the Constitution. Creating a central bank isn't one of those powers.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by netbioserror on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:20AM (#36321411)
It's pretty far-fetched to argue that any person, historical or otherwise, has more claim to authority over federal powers than the Constitution. Who are you to argue against Article I Section 8 and the 10th Amendment? And the 9th for that matter?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by HDThoreaun on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:29PM (#36331301)
commerce clause gives congress the power to set up a central bank. also

> To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

regulate the value thereof literally describes a central bank.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by netbioserror on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @09:49PM (#36335443)
"Central banking" is an excessively broad interpretation of regulating commerce between the several states. Further, delegation of enumerated powers is not itself an enumerated power. Just these two interpretations alone are enough to give the federal government near limitless economic intervention power, which it is blindingly obvious the Constitution's authors did not favor (see their extensive writings and the Preamble to the Bill of Rights).
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by harimau777 on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @07:20AM (#36324184)
Assuming, for sake of argument, that the system was designed to lock up in a split-Congress scenario, that still only constitutes a working legislative system if congress represents the will of the people.

However, the combination of gerrymandering, the electoral college, lobbyists, etc. mean that congress no longer reflects the will of the people in a meaningful way.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by netbioserror on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @10:12AM (#36326272)
I'm sure your definition of "will of the people" and mine are fundamentally incompatible, so this rings hollow to me.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by oilchange on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:43PM (#36321155)
> In the end I'd say the US's broken legislative system has forced the fed to make some really tough decisions.

But don't the fed and congress serve the same master? Congress is 'broken' for a reason.

> The board of the fed saw congress's failure and figured "if this country can't execute fiscal policy well at least we can step in with expansionary monetary policy".

No. The idea of using monetary policy over fiscal policy has been in use for decades. It's simpler, quicker and politically easier.

> Came to kick them in the ass when covid rolled around

That's when we had the expansionary fiscal policy. Where's the praise for congress?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FGEXPND

> but it was also arguably responsible for one the best decades of economic growth in human history.

It was responsible for the biggest asset price increases ( stocks, housing prices, etc ) along with extreme wealth disparity, stagnant wages, low socio-economic advancement and the political chaos of obama-trump-biden.

Crazy to see someone praise a bunch of unaccountable international bankers for their monetary policy especially when the monetary policy causes the economic problems in the first place. And then put down elected politicians for their lack of fiscal policy and ignore their expansionary fiscal policy during covid. Comment reads like FED PR.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:03PM (#36327958)
How much of that growth is paper? Additionally, A lot of infrastructural maintenance and investment was deferred by communities that should have been taking advantage of low rates which will cost a premium in the future, likely compounded by higher rates.