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Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by baq on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:29AM (#36291791)
This, this and exactly this.

Their finance team probably made a projection that if they can get X% of current mobile web users onto the app, they’ll be able to extract Y% more total revenue. They have no idea that they should split users into contributors and lurkers and even if they had, they have absolutely no idea how to model their value, so they don’t, the board sees the numbers and tells them ‘ASAP’ and that’s how you kill social networks, because the financial model is based on false assumptions.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by Freak_NL on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:51AM (#36291996)
> They have no idea that they should split users into contributors and lurkers […]

They probably did do the maths and conclude that the contributors who'll stick around are driving a significant part of the desired engagement. Dumb memes and culture war potshots and disinformation sure, but engagement.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by sclarisse on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:52AM (#36292009)
It’s less about extracting that revenue and more about extracting that sweet IPO capital with a story about being replacement-TikTok.
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by LeifCarrotson on Monday June 12, 2023 @08:17AM (#36292248)
The IPO capital you can raise is a function of your revenue prospectus.

If you have NNN million users, and you have full location tracking, purchase history, device ID, contacts, search history, list of other apps installed, usage data, Wifi SSIDs, Bluetooth beacons, etc. etc. etc. that's going to look like a huge payday compared to those same users running a mobile adblocker.

And if you're not currently collecting location tracking data, and you've got half a decade of meteoric growth, well, turn it on. Forecast that graph up and to the right, and just flip the switch to the "get money" position.

Due to the winner's curse, you only have to convince a few investors. Even if a significant fraction don't trust your prospectus and imagine that some users might be turned off by a post-IPO monetization scheme, you merely have to convince a small group that your numbers are accurate and you're TikTok 2.0.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by sclarisse on Monday June 12, 2023 @08:29AM (#36292365)
The key point in that is that many IPO buyers are willing to believe in imaginary revenue that will never be extracted. Extracting revenue as a goal in and of itself uses a different playbook than IPOing.
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by itronitron on Monday June 12, 2023 @09:00AM (#36292716)
Yeah, IPO (or VC) capital at this point is a Pavlov's dog trained to expect riches from every additional bit of private information in the data feed.
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by nbar1 on Monday June 12, 2023 @08:47AM (#36292562)
> They have no idea that they should split users into contributors and lurkers

Comments like this amaze me. People really think these giant corps are out here not doing things like this.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by parpfish on Monday June 12, 2023 @09:45AM (#36293324)
I think the problem is that people read the analyses that companies share publicly (e.g., in a press release or earnings call), and they assume that that's all they did.

You should assume that any numbers shared publicly are just the tip of a giant-ass iceberg and that there were probably 10x more analyses going on internally that weren't shared.

The thing that ultimately gets shared publicly is whatever avoids using advanced stats or internal jargon; They want a single soundbite, not a scientific paper with a full methods section.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by coredog64 on Monday June 12, 2023 @10:31AM (#36294111)
Story time: Worked at a large multinational, and 6-7 years ago they decided they had to ape into the whole “data science” gold rush. They spent millions of dollars on hardware, software, salaries, and consulting.

After a year with not much to show for it, the VP for the silo starts to put out kudos for the team for break-even revenue impact. However, behind the scenes, the insight they were taking credit for was a common sense idea that had already been in the e-commerce team’s backlog.

Nothing surprises me when a company says that they’ve run the numbers.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by parpfish on Monday June 12, 2023 @10:55AM (#36294668)
i think that many business get lured into doing data-science because they think that math/stats powers grant borderline-mystical powers and that they can be used to peer into a data warehouse and create with ideas/business strategies that no mere mortal (i.e., people with domain expertise in business) could have dreamt up.

But... most businesses aren't that complex, and people can usually come up with really good common sense ideas for how to make improvements. Data-science is often most effective when it serves less as a visionary idea-maker and more as translator that helps common-sense ideas become real (optimizing the precise values used, figuring out the best roll-out strategies, building forecasts).

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by relaxing on Monday June 12, 2023 @09:05AM (#36292790)
People really think a giant corp acts a monolithic entity with perfect distribution of knowledge and ability and the stupid actions of dumb individuals will always be stamped out rather than amplified.

And yes comments like this amaze me too.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by phire on Monday June 12, 2023 @09:13AM (#36292883)
Me too. Reddit almost certainly ran those numbers.

They might have chosen to ignore them. They might have fed biased assumptions into their calculations. Project management might have messed up and deprioritized the features meant to placate that section of the userbase. Institutional churn might have resulted in the corporation forgetting that they ever did run those numbers or why they are now heading down this path.

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by jeltz on Monday June 12, 2023 @09:23AM (#36293008)
Having worked at some quite large companies: yes, it happens for real that they do not do stuff like that. It is likely that some team obviously has ran the numbers but that does not mean they made it to the people who made the decision.
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by ren_engineer on Monday June 12, 2023 @10:05AM (#36293616)
Reddit is far from giant in terms of employees or revenue, and you'd be surprised at how many dumb decisions and how much money is wasted by startups that have raised hundreds of millions of dollars. You really shouldn't assume competence in situations like these, especially when Reddit has recently been making a bunch of terrible long term decisions to try and juice their numbers in the short term for IPO
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by bamfly on Monday June 12, 2023 @10:40AM (#36294304)
Big (and small) companies routinely make "data-driven decisions" based on obviously-faulty data collection, bad models, or misapplication of statistics. It rarely takes some crack scientific mind to spot it, either. But they want a decision now and doing it right might take a lot longer or cost more, or the correct model might be a lot fuzzier and that makes them uncomfortable, or they've got some notion in their heads already and they'll be damned if mere numbers are going to get in the way of that, so everyone in the room's just supposed to nod along when the blatantly-biased graphs come up on the Power Point suggesting (erroneously) that we do X.

The business world runs at least as much on bullshit as the most cynical among us might think, I'd say. It's not half as clever or competently-run as one might hope, certainly.

It's a cliche that front-line workers have a better understanding of customers and products than the c-suite and that this leads to predictable blunders, because that's often true.

(I'm also not sure I'd call Reddit a "giant corp", but that's beside the point [EDIT] and anyway, to be fair, this particular discussion isn't just concerned with Reddit)

Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by xorcist on Monday June 12, 2023 @07:13PM (#36302728)
Often the decision is already made. The numbers game is how you sell the decision internally.
Re:Reddit experiments on users, forcing them to install app ... by xp84 on Monday June 12, 2023 @10:04AM (#36293594)
My former boss, someone I used to think had a brilliant business mind, at an e-commerce company, forced us to produce a shitty mobile app, and then to pour more resources into it, because of how the average spending of users in-app was higher. I mean, no sh*t, these are people who are such fans of your brand that they want to download a whole dedicated app for shopping at your site. Of course they’re buying more. I have an app for stores I frequent a LOT, but would not see myself installing one for like, stores that I visit maybe once a year. But the causality was in the other direction.