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Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday June 10, 2023 @05:57PM (#36275578)
You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection. Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow.
Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by dragonwriter on Saturday June 10, 2023 @06:09PM (#36275682)
> Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow.

Not parituclarly relevant to the gridlock violation at issue here, but left on red from a one-way street to a one-way street is legal in the same conditions as right-on-red generally in a large majority of US states, a few of which also allow left-on-red from a two-way street to a one-way street. Left-on-red is only completely illegal in a few states.

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @08:00PM (#36276609)
The law here is clear. There has to be "sufficient space on the other side" before you enter the intersection. There is no need to make the entire maneuver at once.
Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by dunham on Saturday June 10, 2023 @08:17PM (#36276727)
> You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection.

Yeah, I've seen tickets written for this in Emeryville, CA for cars that entered on green and weren't going to clear the intersection in the next ten minutes. (I don't know if the intersection is still that bad.) Bicycle cop, because there was no way they'd get a car in there.

> Left on red is never legal

I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it.

But I did see someone make a left on red on market street in SF from the rightmost lane, which is very illegal.

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by saalweachter on Saturday June 10, 2023 @10:38PM (#36277447)
> I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it.

I believe it requires two one-way streets.

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by Jap2-0 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @11:24PM (#36277691)
Yeah, this covers the case when turning left doesn't cross any oncoming lanes of traffic - so it's basically the same as turning right on red at a normal light.

Although searching for this now, it does appear to also be allowed from a two-way,[0] which sounds vaguely familiar but isn't really the same as turning right on red.

[0] https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/traffic-safety/traffic...