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Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by simlevesque on Tuesday June 06, 2023 @10:01PM (#36221890)
ctrl+f "accessibility" in part 2: zero results

ctrl+f "accessibility" in part 1: zero results

Does anyone care about digital access to content for disabled people ? Or about the ADA ?

Svg to canvas without any answer for accessibility is backwardness, plain and simple.

You are letting down anyone who's deaf, blind or has trouble hearing or seeing, anyone who does not know how to read, has motor impairments, temporary or not and the older folks. Also screen translaters will not work on canvas.

Please follow the WCAG guidelines.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by Rapzid on Tuesday June 06, 2023 @11:04PM (#36222369)
A somewhat common approach is to maintain a parallel DOM structure for accessibility and keep it in sync with the data structures driving the canvas view.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by tadfisher on Tuesday June 06, 2023 @11:09PM (#36222392)
Genuinely asking, how do you make something like their map view accessible with so many objects and layers? I'd imagine you end up with a solution that exposes various content rectangles and ignores everything else, kind of how Google Maps does it.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by mhoad on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @06:08AM (#36224951)
This is a problem that turns up in Flutter when they compile for the web.

The long term answer is the Accessibility Object Model spec currently under development.

The current answer is to build a replica DOM structure for accessibility purposes.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by ygra on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @07:32AM (#36225522)
Not all of accessibility is for those who cannot see (well). WCAG also has a bunch of guidelines for loss of dexterity and other ailments:

• keyboard support (being able to navigate to all controls as needed, not being stuck in a navigation island from which there is no escape with the keyboard, etc.)

• pointing device considerations (not requiring drag unless absolutely essential, no action on mouse-down, etc.)

• not requiring the simultaneous use of mouse and keyboard (e.g. via modifier keys)

• sufficient size for buttons and other pointer targets

• the ability to suppress animations, flashing images, etc.

• the ability to control colors and contrast of things on the screen

...

Of course, something like Photoshop, Illustrator, or the visual part of Google Maps is hard to use when you cannot see, but there are so many different disabilities that some or even most accessibility guidelines can apply to pretty much any software.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by mydriasis on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @10:02AM (#36226897)
No action on mouse down? So we need to develop applications that you can't click? Is that really part of accessibility requirements these days?
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by tylerag on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @10:15AM (#36227055)
There's a difference between mouse down and mouse up. A click needs both.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by dingledork69 on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @10:05AM (#36226930)
Oh is that why modern American software is almost unusable? Give me back my modifier keys and compact UIs
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by johncoltrane on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @02:21AM (#36223513)
They are also letting down anyone who doesn't speak English, anyone who doesn't have a recent computer and decent internet, anyone who doesn't want to execute JavaScript in their browser… and even anyone who has no interest in making maps.

Not everything is for everyone, get over it.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by vbezhenar on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @03:05AM (#36223787)
Unless they have a legal requirement to provide product for disabled people, why would they care? It's a huge investment for very little output, unless this product is specifically targeted.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by layer8 on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @05:30AM (#36224724)
Accessibility helps everyone, not just disabled people.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @06:37AM (#36225114)
This attitude is why sooner or later everyone ends up with legal requirements for disabled people.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by omniglottal on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @01:32PM (#36230146)
Products are targetted toward people. Are the disabled not people? If you need an honest answer to "why would they care?", you need more help than can be provided here.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by azangru on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @03:24AM (#36223908)
Tangential question: how does accessibility work in Google Docs after they've switched to canvas?

Or in Google Maps, which would be a much closer parallel?

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by TonyStr on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @03:37AM (#36224003)
While not directly related to your question, Google docs' switch to canvas broke my custom dark theme which I'd been maintaining for years, and several others were also using. This had been the main draw for me switching to Google docs in the first place and they took it away. I'd argue this is much less accessible as I can't use the product at night. Ironically, I feel like I've experienced more bugs after the switch than before
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by rablackburn on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @03:59AM (#36224160)
> Ironically, I feel like I've experienced more bugs after the switch than before

Not ironic, expected. When you do a refactor like this any good PM knows you’re creating a bunch of new bugs, and the ROI of the rewrite should consider this.

Unfortunately the way it goes most of the time is “ok, what if we’re really careful not to write any bugs? Then it’s all upside!”

…and now your dark theme is broken

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by a13o on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @08:17AM (#36225853)
There's an accessibility mode you can enable which provides keyboard and menu navigation, as well as audio cues. It's basically an alternative interface for interacting with the data layer.

I actually think this is a better approach to accessibility in web applications than trying to hang all of HTML+CSS+ARIA on the DOM. Check out Accessibility Object Model (AOM) for one spec proposal around this idea.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by rikroots on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @04:19AM (#36224296)
I've never used the product, but I did see this snippet in the article, which gives me a flicker of hope that the product does address some accessibility concerns:

> One particularly nice aspect of this system is that key presses follow the same flow as pointer events, which is not how things work in the DOM. In the DOM, you usually bind key handlers globally, and pointer events per element. But here, we get all the benefits of stopping propagation centrally, which is a real help for adding keyboard shortcuts and modifier keys.

Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by layer8 on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @05:28AM (#36224705)
The quote doesn’t seem particularly related to accessibility. Having keyboard shortcuts doesn’t by itself imply accessibility.
Re:From SVG to Canvas – A new way of building interactions by pyrelight on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @07:47AM (#36225620)
It's Flash Player all over again! Remember when SEO became important and everyone who had a Flash website had to make "low bandwidth HTML" sites for indexing? :)