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Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by zizee on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:06PM (#36171424)
Are there any good studies into the most prevalent causes of homelessness? I'd be especially interested that are trying to tease apart cause and effect, without the study author trying to prove out their own preconceptions.
Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by DoreenMichele on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:14PM (#36171490)
Years ago, I took a class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I've spent time homeless and read a lot, etc.

There is a lack of affordable housing in all US states.

It's extremely hard to live without a car in the US and cars are a huge expense, plus our car-centric culture means lack of a car is a barrier to employment, both practically and because people are reluctant to hire you.

Medical expenses can be a factor in the US. Universal health coverage could help.

There's no one cause and the oft cited "addiction and mental health" is largely prejudice. In a nutshell, you wind up homeless when you have too many problems and not enough resources to handle them and the US doesn't provide a robust social safety net.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by kodah on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:19PM (#36171545)
> There is a lack of affordable housing in all US states.

Is it a lack of affordable housing or is it a lack of wage growth compared to cost of living?

Personally, I've started to think it's the latter, because it explains why upper middle class non-millionaires are also getting pinched. They too often rely on income rather than capital gains.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by DoreenMichele on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:20PM (#36171564)
You can have both things going on.
Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by kodah on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:26PM (#36171623)
Does one not solve the other though? If it does, that seems to make them mutually exclusive.

My personal conspiracy theory, and I admit it's a conspiracy theory, is that land owners are the ones centering popular conversation and data around affordable housing rather than wage growth. It opens doors for rental assistance, a multitude of rental-based density expansions, and other programs that put more money in their pockets rather than expanding the money income-based people make and keep via ownership.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by DoreenMichele on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:40PM (#36171762)
I'm not a land owner. I'm someone with an incomplete BS with a concentration in Housing who also spent years homeless.

In the 1950s, the average new home was 1200 sq.ft. Post 2000, it was over 2400 sq.ft. and held on average one less household member. We've also torn down a million single room occupancy units in recent decades.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by kodah on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:54PM (#36171885)
Apologies, I wasn't implicating you. Landowner could've been better expressed as corporate landowners. They're the ones that own the most residential real estate in large cities, which are generally the only places having this problem.

My house was built in the 1950s at around 1200sq ft. It's since expanded to over 2000, mainly from finishing a basement and expanding the top level. I'd be curious to see the data you base that on, because the people I bought it from passed this down generation to generation and had their entire family living in it. The house I grew up in has a similar story.

Another anecdote is that about half of the 1950s homes on my block were bulldozed and replaced with single units that have largely gone vacant. My cities issue is that we have plenty of housing, but even the bottom line single units are too expensive compared to wages because permitting and building costs are through the metaphorical roof.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by DoreenMichele on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:05PM (#36171957)
The figure of of a million units of SROs torn down comes from Wikipedia.

Between 1955 and 2013, almost one million SRO units were eliminated in the US due to regulation, conversion or demolition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy

I'm pretty sure the stats on 1950s housing vs. post 2000 housing were federal stats, but I don't have a citation handy. I've been talking about housing issues a lot of years.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by kodah on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:08PM (#36171986)
You're probably right. When I was in the Bay I met a lot of people who would've lived in single unit housing who split mansions and single family homes with other people.

In Texas I don't remember seeing much if any SROs. I've only seen them in abundance since I've lived in Portland.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by icelancer on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:53PM (#36171875)
Wage growth is exploding in some areas (ours primarily) and not others, which contributes massively to the Baumol effect.

Land owners aren't really incentivized that much to talk about affordable housing. Housing developers would like to fix the problem by building market-rate housing - as supply goes up, demand begins to be satiated and prices can come down over time. All the while, developers make more money.

But building dense and inexpensive housing is often blocked by leftist-type politicians for being unsuitable for living, and NIMBYs of all sorts of political spectrum block it on wholly different grounds.

More housing = affordable housing. Not subsidized housing, not regulated housing. Just more of it will help America.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by kodah on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:06PM (#36171965)
Apologies to you too, I should've said corporate landowners. I think that mostly puts us in agreement, though I don't think developers are the problem. It's property managers seeking to maximize profit that are more the problem there.

> More housing = affordable housing. Not subsidized housing, not regulated housing. Just more of it will help America.

Last caveat that I'd add to this is also more diverse housing street by street. Having space for single family homes alongside dense housing isn't just a good vibe, I think it also incentivizes a normalization of value. Combine that with shopping/retail and I think you can build some pretty equitable places with shorter commutes.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by rank0 on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:25PM (#36171613)
There is observably an abundance of cheap shelter. It’s just not where people want to live.

Something like ~97% of people live on ~3% of the land.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by DoreenMichele on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:34PM (#36171709)
I get tired of hearing this.

My target housing costs for getting off the street was $400. I searched half the country to find it and moved a long distance to get it.

I've heard from other homeless people that they could be off the street if they could find a place for $500 or $600 and they were willing to move to get it on the condition that it was real and could be counted on.

Additionally, I live without a car. So a hypothetically cheap place without bus service that's in the country where I would need to buy a car, pay monthly insurance, gas and maintenance adds X amount to the cost of living there on top of the direct housing costs, which makes a lot of those "cheap" places a lot less cheap. (That's just thinking of cost, overlooking the minor detail that I can no longer drive.)

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by whimsicalism on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:34PM (#36171710)
Very difficult to tease out the definition of various terms in studies and they are mostly trying to play to their anticipated audience.

This is evident, for example, if you look closely into the studies saying stuff like "most homeless people in the Bay became homeless in the Bay area", etc.

Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by tiahura on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:19PM (#36172077)
Lax law enforcement. When we used to have vagrancy laws homelessness had a way of working itself out.
Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by habinero on Saturday June 03, 2023 @02:36AM (#36174286)
Gross. Chasing away homeless people doesn't remove them from existence.
Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by tiahura on Saturday June 03, 2023 @11:31AM (#36177450)
It removes the addicts and poop from the sidewalk.
Re:California Spent $17B on Homelessness. It’s Not Working by fragmede on Saturday June 03, 2023 @04:40PM (#36180333)
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