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Re:Factories in Space by ben_w on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:09AM (#36125764)
Depending on what you're doing, it can be easier. No need for a clean room for the chips or an ultra-hard vacuum chamber for your extreme-UV laser when you're already in the cleanest hardest vacuum around.

I read somewhere that some specialist types of fibre optic cables already make sense to make in orbit just for the microgravity, but I don't know if that was a proposal to try it or if they already do…

Re:Factories in Space by photochemsyn on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:11AM (#36125798)
All the equipment would need to be radiation-hardened, though, and radiation-hardening is pretty expensive, although maybe easier in low-Earth orbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening

Re:Factories in Space by Majestic121 on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:19AM (#36125896)
Could be the walls of the hangar to be hardened, not necessarily the whole equipment. I'm not sure if it would be less expensive though
Re:Factories in Space by themanmaran on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:34AM (#36126077)
It's just heavier that way. The easiest way to rad harden things is to stick them in a big lead box. But that's not ideal for shipping things to space.

Alternatively I've seen some companies successfully rad-hardening from the software level. Effectively software that is tolerant to random bit flips.

Re:Factories in Space by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:41AM (#36126157)
> easiest way to rad harden things is to stick them in a big lead box

Or work in a permanent shadow. Cosmic rays are easier to deal with than solar radiation.

Re:Factories in Space by shagie on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @12:34PM (#36126936)
This makes power generation a bit more challenging.

There are sun synchronous orbits (and the orbit at the dawn/dusk terminator is an interesting one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit ), but there isn't an easy orbit around the Earth such that it is always in shadow... or rather, that's the Earth/Sun L2 point... which is where the JWST is. At that distance you lose the magnetic shielding of the Earth (and makes it even more expensive to get materials to and from it).

Re:Factories in Space by dotnet00 on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:51AM (#36126293)
Considering that most production in space (with even near future launch costs) would mainly only be worthwhile if the resources were also obtained from space, I don't think radiation shielding will be as much of an issue, since if you're doing ISRU, you can gather enough mass around the facility to handle shielding.

For chip fab in particular, since current processes require a lot of water, and water is very good as radiation shielding, such a facility in space would probably just store water in the walls.

Re:Factories in Space by aziaziazi on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:59AM (#36126423)
Well problem solved then ! Just find a lot of water in space not too far from earth, or a cheap way to create it in orbit.
Re:Factories in Space by dotnet00 on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @12:13PM (#36126615)
Yeah, that's why I said that most things aren't worth producing in space without the ability to obtain resources from space. Kinda pointless if you just have to launch the water from Earth.
Re:Factories in Space by ianburrell on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:52AM (#36126314)
Also, the equipment either needs to be made to work in vacuum or have to maintain atmosphere for it.
Re:Factories in Space by marcosdumay on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @12:51PM (#36127191)
The factory needs to be shielded. You can't really harden fine processes.

Right now, space manufacturing makes sense for exactly nothing. With enough research, it can in theory make sense for almost anything.

Re:Factories in Space by wongarsu on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @02:17PM (#36128425)
In (very) low earth orbit you can get by without radiation hardening. The ISS uses HP zbooks (and before that Thinkpads) and apparently they only really modify cooling and power, without any changes for radiation hardening.

Seems like they are reliable enough for their job and just need the occasional reboot. For more critical systems you could probably get by with three computers voting on the result, and if they disagree the outlier gets rebooted (a fairly standard setup in aviation and space)

Re:Factories in Space by idiotsecant on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @03:02PM (#36129116)
It turns out space is full of big floaty rocks that you could hollow out and put your factory inside.
Re:Factories in Space by heavenlyblue on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @06:42PM (#36132099)
And how many of these big floaty rocks are close enough go Earth?
Re:Factories in Space by ianburrell on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @11:59AM (#36126424)
Still need clean room for humans that needed to operate it. If have completely automated it, then don’t need clean room on Earth. The vacuum chamber is cheaper than the laser. Both reasons are saving millions at the expense of billions.

Fabs are probably the worst factories to put in space because of how much human adjustment they require. Also, the equipment is expensive and delicate, and redesigning it to work in space would be enormously expensive. It would be ruinous to lose one. They require tons of chemicals to work, that have to come from Earth, and produce a lot of nasty waste, which still have to dispose of in space.

Re:Factories in Space by m0llusk on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @02:09PM (#36128313)
Use robots instead of humans maybe.
Re:Factories in Space by wongarsu on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @02:08PM (#36128308)
> I read somewhere that some specialist types of fibre optic cables already make sense to make in orbit just for the microgravity, but I don't know if that was a proposal to try it or if they already do…

They are testing various prototypes on the ISS since 2019. Apparently the fibre quality is great and better than what we can make on earth [1], and the current prototypes are about automating the process.

I suspect that once access to space (and space stations) becomes cheap enough we will identify a lot of manufacturing processes where gravity is detrimental, and where the end product is valuable enough that shipping to and from space makes sense.

1: https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/flightopportunit...