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Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by LaurensBER on Sunday May 28, 2023 @06:09AM (#36102702)
The issue is not the cost at the moment. The real issue is, what are we going to do in 50 years?

Invest even more money to buy another 10-50 years or will we have to admit defeat? If there's even a chance of admitting defeat that will be felt in property prices and investments a lot sooner than those 50 years.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by ta1243 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:01AM (#36102976)
Venice is a small city compared to Jakarta, and they're moving Jakarta. However I'm not sure if they will succeed in their plans with Jakarta, sure the big companies will move, but moving a city is not a trivial thing to do.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by rippercushions on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:06AM (#36103000)
They're building a showcase city a thousand kilometers away in a different island as the new capital, but they're not relocating the 20+ million who live in Jakarta.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by tough on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:41AM (#36103180)
If they relocate the govt and companies paying salaries to those 20M, won't they also move there?
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by seanmcdirmid on Sunday May 28, 2023 @08:13AM (#36103346)
They are relocating the government. The private companies weren’t invited. This is like how Burma moved its capital from Rangoon to Nay Pyi Taw, Rangoon is still the commercial capital if Burma.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by jcranmer on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:29AM (#36104277)
The other examples I would reach for are Côte d'Ivoire moving its capital from Abidjan to Yamoussoukro in 1983, or Nigeria moving from Lagos to Abuja in 1991. In both cases, the old capital is still far and away the largest city in the country, like 10× the new capital city.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by ta1243 on Monday May 29, 2023 @06:22AM (#36112503)
> Nigeria moving from Lagos to Abuja in 1991

By comparison, since 2020 the Lagos population grew by more than the entire population of Abuja.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by 627467 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @08:12AM (#36103334)
That's it: 20 million helpless people are going to move like sheep because shepherds are moving to another place.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by paavope on Sunday May 28, 2023 @08:15AM (#36103355)
I’m sure some will move, but that number is going to be closer to 0 than 20M
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by inawarminister on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:29AM (#36104282)
Jakartan here, will never move even if the whole city get flooded (more than it has been). I'll probably get a houseboat and settle down.

More realistically, Northern Jakarta is sinking, but the Southern part (and the suburbs/exurbs in the surrounding area) are still going to be okay and Jabodetabek will still be home to millions.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by frankfrankfrank on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:07AM (#36103002)
In another 50 years the condition of Venice will be a footnote in the ledger of systemic problems that bring everything to a halt.

The system, the organism or ecosystem of European civilization world wide is rotting and collapsing right before our very eyes. We are witness to the Technology Age Collapse, whether people can or want to see it or not. That will have consequences for everything and everyone, including Venice.

AI cannot create any of the things that formed the European civilization that produced and maintained everything we all have, like computers, electricity, communications, transportation, flight, etc. AI can copy, emulate, and automate; it cannot create harmonious and finely humanly tuned things. It would never have created the works of art and architecture, let alone the technologies to produce everything in order to solve specific human problems.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by jasonwatkinspdx on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:41AM (#36103177)
Uhm, all of the technologies you mention were developed by a web of humans far larger and more diverse than "European civilization." This reads very poorly.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by 11235813213455 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:49AM (#36103218)
> let alone the technologies to produce everything in order to solve specific human problems

not just technologies, but policies, education, mindsets. The goal is to make people switch from a high environmental impact to a low one. You don't need much technologies to get a bicycle rather than a heavy hence polluting vehicle. The situation we are now is just the result of many many smaller ones

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by alpaca128 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:58AM (#36103257)
> AI can copy, emulate, and automate; it cannot create harmonious and finely humanly tuned things. It would never have created the works of art and architecture

I have yet to see evidence that this kind of assertion will age any better than the famous 64kB quote. True, AI can't create masterpieces today, but claiming it will never match humans feels more like emotional wishful thinking.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by gattilorenz on Sunday May 28, 2023 @08:06AM (#36103299)
You meant Bill Gates’ 640KB, or is this related to the Commodore 64?
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by shjake on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:03AM (#36104071)
a ‘masterpiece’ is a very subjective term. Most are viewed as such not because of some objectively measurable quality but because of their uniqueness/originality (at the time) and context. In that regard it’s hard to imagine AI could achieve that until it became very good at imitating humans.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by wahnfrieden on Sunday May 28, 2023 @12:58PM (#36105764)
claiming it will match humans feels more like emotional wishful thinking
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by vidarh on Sunday May 28, 2023 @01:13PM (#36105887)
It's basically a religious argument that realistically can only hold if there is something in the brain which violates known physics and allows for a category of computation that isn't just different, but different enough to be impossible to emulate within known physics.

Otherwise the brain can't compute anything a computer can't (eventually) emulate.

Maybe it's possible - as an atheist I find that near impossible to imagine, but I won't entirely dismiss the possibility, but I doubt it.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by arp242 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @08:28AM (#36103418)
Does anyone else miss the days where we could browse HN comments without some tangent about AI on every fucking story?
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by goodpoint on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:22AM (#36103087)
> property prices and investments

Most of the value of Venice is cultural and it's not measured with money.

Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by ivanhoe on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:38AM (#36103167)
Well, for people living there it's how they pay their bills, so for them it's very practical economical problem. And not just them, the whole Veneto region in fact lives from tourism, and Venice is their main attraction, so they all heavily depend on it. Even here in Istria (Croatia) many people live from organizing boat tours to Venice, so the economical impact of these changes goes even beyond just Italy.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by pydry on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:54AM (#36104502)
I visited once and stayed well away from the center. It didnt look like anyone much actually did live there - which makes sense, if you owned an apartment it seems you were better off renting it to tourists and moving to mestre.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by goodpoint on Sunday May 28, 2023 @12:54PM (#36105735)
Tourism is a completely different thing from the market value of the home you live in.
Re:Venetians are pondering raising their entire city by toyg on Sunday May 28, 2023 @01:39PM (#36106097)
> the whole Veneto region in fact lives from tourism

This has.not been true for more than 30 years. Veneto is the heartland of the original Benetton, a heavily industrialised region, the engine of the Italian North-East economic mini-boom of the 80s/90s (based on low-cost manufacturing). In fact, there is a massive duality between the tourism industry in Venice and the economy of the mainland, which is markedly reflected in politics (Venice tends to elect leftist mayors, while Veneto as a whole is very rightwing).

Losing the tourism industry would definitely be a blow to the economy, but Veneto would survive economically just fine.