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Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tshaddox on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:37AM (#36080399)
> That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a new car and have been pleasantly surprised at the breadth of offerings.

My wife and I are in the market for a second car, after buying an ICE SUV at the beginning of the pandemic and having no car for 10 years before that (living in San Francisco).

There’s a lot of options for a $40,000+ primary family car, but my impression is that there is a notable lack of options in the “second car” or “economy car” categories. We already have the ICE SUV for road trips, camping trips, IKEA trips, etc. We will probably need a second car very soon (moving from the Bay Area to LA and less WFH schedules).

Am I just supposed to get a Leaf or a Bolt? Plug in hybrids seem very cool to me but barely exist in the US (is this really too much cognitive load to figure out how fuel economy works?). Where’s the $25,000 electric Corolla with 100 mile range?

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by ccozan on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:43AM (#36080444)
Dacia Spring come to my mind, but I am not sure is exported to US
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tshaddox on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:13AM (#36080650)
Yeah, I’m also looking for something I can actually buy through normal channels (granted in in the last few years it has been difficult just buying any car has been difficult from a party who isn’t clearly a scalper) and expect to have some level of support availability. Not really looking to buy a car the same way I buy Raspberry Pi clones from AliExpress.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by ccozan on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:38AM (#36081209)
I guess they can rebrand it Renault Spring and have it serviced by Nissan ( they are all under the same alliance )
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by oblio on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:14AM (#36080653)
It's not. They barely have any cars under 4m there.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by labster on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:48AM (#36080482)
Toyota took a big bet on hydrogen power, so we’re not going to see an electric Corolla until they finally give in. As for the price point, electric production is still scaling out. And consumers don’t think they want vehicles with shorter range, even if that’s all they need. First, the car has to sell.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tshaddox on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:17AM (#36080676)
I’m not convinced by the common wisdom that “consumers demand longer battery range.” That’s especially irrelevant to the “second car” market which surely must be pretty big. I think it comes down more to how ridiculously cheap gas is (despite incessant complaints) and how long it would take most people to come out ahead even just buying a hybrid instead of a pure EV. It sure would be nice if gas were more expensive!
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by fps-hero on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:14AM (#36081034)
It seems that EVs are stuck in the range wars, the headline spec for an EV above all else is its kWh and range. It’s ridiculous, no ICE car gets marketed by range, and if they did you’d find that EVs are about on par range wise, they are just less convenient to refuel.

The value proposition of a hybrid makes EVs difficult to stomach, why get one EV when you can get two hybrids for the same price? Toyota will 100% jump on EVs once they become economical, but until then they are still making the car for the masses.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by fooker on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:49AM (#36081282)
> you’d find that EVs are about on par range wise.

Practical sedans in the same category as the Model 3 like Nissan Altima and Chevy Malibu get more than 550 miles of range.

If ICEs really wanted to compete on range, they could easily extend this to a thousand miles and be still lighter than current EVs.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by michaelt on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:19AM (#36081476)
> It’s ridiculous, no ICE car gets marketed by range,

That's because every ICE car gets 400-600 miles per tank, and there are filling stations essentially everywhere.

For EVs, more range compensates for all concerns about charging availability.

All the chargers at work were busy? No problem if you've got several days of range.

Loved ones live in the middle of nowhere, with limited options for charging en route? Friend living in a flat who can't help you charge over night? Not a problem if you've got plenty of range.

Changed jobs and got a longer commute, or lost access to charging at work? Not a problem with 300 miles of range.

En route chargers along your route only charge at a meagre 40 miles per hour? Competing charger networks mean you only have access to some chargers? 300 miles of range means you can just go to a better one.

Worried about battery degradation with age, or lower battery performance due to your area's weather? Want to use the fastest charging, which only charges to 80% capacity? If you've got range to spare, no problem.

The situation will probably be different in a decade or two, when every gas station gets equipped to charge EVs at 300+ miles per hour.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by londons_explore on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:30AM (#36081544)
EV's range wars matter to consumers because charging at home can be a quarter of the cost of charging at a supercharger.

If your ICE car gasoline cost 4x the price at any gas station except your home one, then you too would want a tank as big as possible.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by mateo- on Friday May 26, 2023 @01:54AM (#36080519)
Mazda tried and failed, and decided to release it anyway -- see the MX-30 EV. 100 mile estimated range for $34k.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tshaddox on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:24AM (#36080724)
Isn’t that very expensive?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by yurishimo on Friday May 26, 2023 @06:56AM (#36082508)
Yes, that's why it was a failure. Most news outlets theorized that it was a compliance vehicle for California but that was never confirmed by Mazda. If it was a compliance vehicle, Mazda spent way too much money on R&D to sell it for that price. At $20k, it might have had a better shot.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by PuffinBlue on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:14AM (#36080660)
Don’t know if it’s available in the US, but we’re similar to you in wanting a lower priced second car and we’re buying an MG4.

They’re pretty reasonably priced here in the UK.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by tshaddox on Friday May 26, 2023 @02:18AM (#36080690)
I have read dozens of articles, buying guides, and reviews of electric and hybrid cars, and I’ve never even heard of that make, so I’m guessing it’s not available in the US.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by underwater on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:54AM (#36081703)
MG is a Chinese brand reusing the branding of the old British version of MG.

Over the last half a decade they've become the fifth biggest brand in Australia ahead of Mitsubishi and Hyundai.

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by hef19898 on Friday May 26, 2023 @03:09AM (#36081004)
Of all tue existing OEMs, Toyota propably botched the EV transition the most. Which actually is quite a surprise for me, to be honest.

Regarding cheap (-ish) EVs, you have Stelantis (Peugeot, Opel, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Citroen, Chrysler). They sell a small hatchback, VW Polo sized, as an EV with, if memory serves well, a range of 300 km, for about 25k € in Germany. It is available as a Peugeot 208e, a Opel Corsa e and, more expensive and a cross-over SUV thingy, a Peugeot 2008e.

So it sure is possible. And a prime choice for a second car, in our case an EV for four, decent range and luggage space is simply out of budget for now. A smaller one, the classic second car, totally possible. But hey, you only replace cars if you have to, and now that is the big one. So no EV yet...

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by speg on Friday May 26, 2023 @07:27AM (#36082719)
This is my dilemma as well. New LEAF is 40+K CAD. I think I’ll try and find a used 2018 or newer for $20K and convince myself the battery will last.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by dublinben on Friday May 26, 2023 @08:39AM (#36083265)
An electric motorcycle might suit you well as a second vehicle. There’s tons of them in that price range. It would help with horrible LA traffic as well.
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by buffington on Friday May 26, 2023 @04:22PM (#36089081)
I always considered our Model 3 as a second car because we mostly just drove it for local errands and commuting, and I assumed it just didn't have the range to do more.

We recently decided to use for a 2000+ mile road trip instead of using our ICE minivan, and I was blown away with how well the Tesla did as a long road trip vehicle.

We had no range anxiety because of the Super Charger network, and stopping to charge for 45 minutes after driving for 3 hours was far more enjoyable than anticipated.

Where it really did well was also surprising. Have you ever been going up a slight grade on a long highway stretch and find yourself needing to pass a slower vehicle? Most cars I've owned, when already going 65+, take a bit of time to pass a truck going up a hill. Even my 400HP+ modified Subaru STI takes its time as it needs to build turbo pressure and RPMs before it'll get fast enough to comfortably pass up hill.

The Model 3 doesn't even know there's a hill. It'll go from 60 to 120 as fast as it goes from 0-60 like the hill doesn't exist. Fully loaded with 4 adults and their stuff too.

Combine the raw power the car has with the climate control, good sound, full glass roof, ample cargo space and legroom, and it's the best car I've ever used on a long trip, no question. It's just not sub-$40k (at least for most people - I bought mine for $35k from a family member).

Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by moneywoes on Saturday May 27, 2023 @01:16PM (#36096411)
Does this work in the cold as well?
Re:Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-sellin... by buffington on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:24PM (#36108781)
I've not done a similar trip in the cold.

On local trips in the cold (where it's frequently below 0F) I've not noticed any difference in power. It may very well have reduced specs but I'd never no. I've not been motivated to test it with snow, ice, and other cars on the road.

If I were driving 280+ miles per day in the dead of winter I'm sure I'd notice since the range does seem to shrink in the cold. Then again, I've never been impacted by that since I only drive about 40-80 miles a day at most on a typical day.