News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by giantrobot on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:46PM (#36062389)
IIRC tar has some Unixisms that don't necessarily work for Windows/NTFS. Not saying reinventing tar is appropriate but there's Windows/NTFS that a Windows based tape backup need to support.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by cosmotic on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:05PM (#36062629)
Most of what makes NTFS different than FAT probably doesn't need to be backed up. Complex ACLs, alternative data streams, shadow copies, etc, are largely irrelevant when it comes to making a backup. Just a simple warning "The data being backed up includes alternative data streams. These aren't supported and won't be included in the backup" would suffice.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by jandrese on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:46PM (#36063044)
All of that stuff matters when you're using the backup for its intended purpose: to restore a system after hardware failure.

Unix tar is obviously not the right solution, but a Windows tar seems like it shouldn't be that hard to do and yet we are in the situation we are today. I've been using dump/restore for decades now on Unix, including to actually recover from loss, but I admit that it's not that pleasant to use. I like that it is very simple and reliable however, unlike the mess that is Time Machine (recovering from a hardware loss on a Mac is a roll of the dice, and I've gotten snakes) or worse Deja Dup. I'm not sure I've ever successfully recovered a system from a Deja Dup backup.

Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by cosmotic on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @04:36PM (#36063548)
I think the use case for disaster recovery is a bit different than long-term archival.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by mrguyorama on Thursday May 25, 2023 @01:26PM (#36073541)
Does anyone buying tape storage actually use it for archival rather than disaster recovery?
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by kjs3 on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @01:33PM (#36127789)
We do. We have vast amounts of data that we merely have to keep around for a decade or so for compliance purposes that would rarely be accessed, so it goes on tape and off to Iron Mountain. Then we have backups where we need to be able to recover a running system from some 'known good' state, which is somewhat complicated. The former is conceptually tape drive+tar/cpio/etc.; the latter is an expensive setup that includes some proprietary solutions.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by a1369209993 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @05:21PM (#36064010)
> using the backup for its intended purpose: to restore a system after hardware failure.

No. The intended purpose of a backup is to restore the data (such as the Frogger 2 source code) after a hardware failure. If it has the side effect of also producing a working system, that's good, but it's not the point. After all, the hardware necessary to build a working system may not exist any more; one (only-probably not the last) instance of said hardware just broke, after all.

Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by Spooky23 on Thursday May 25, 2023 @12:16AM (#36067010)
The metadata matters.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by kjs3 on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @01:38PM (#36127867)
Your one trivial use case isn't all use cases, and it sure isn't my important one. If you're doing more than backing up your personal workstation, metadata is extremely important. If I ever have to restore something, even just data, out of the multi-petabytes we have on tape, I better not have to manually go through it to figure out who should actually have access to it before I make it available to the people who need it.
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by nycdotnet on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @05:43PM (#36064252)
If you’re backing up a db or something sure, but for a file server this can be just as important as the data itself (ex: now everyone can read HR’s personnel files which had strict permissions before)
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by ilyt on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @06:10PM (#36064480)
The format is extensible enough that it could be added
Re:The long road to recover Frogger 2 source from tape drives by db48x on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @07:39PM (#36065335)
That’s fair; I wasn’t really considering windows. It seems like there ought to be some equivalent by now though.