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Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by Jolter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:01AM (#36043622)
Lars Ulrich, the drummer of Metallica, is widely considered to a mediocre drummer, in terms of technique. His style is distinctive but cannot be called precise. The timing on Master of Puppets is likely due to a fluke during the songwriting/rehearsal process. “Hey guys, this 5/8 thing sounds really cool, I think we’re really nailing it now!”

plays it out of time

Rest of the band likely just got used to his idiosyncratic playing and adapted.

Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by brookst on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:04AM (#36043665)
…and he did that, consistently, with only a few millisecond variations, on exactly the same beat of the same riff, for the entirety of just that one song, and in live performances?
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by IsTom on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:19AM (#36043852)
Drumming and generally keeping rhythm is a physical thing. You move your body parts (e.g. bopping head, swaying hips etc.) and it couples with how and when you're playing.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by brookst on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:57AM (#36044377)
Are you suggesting his movements in this one measure were so unique that they exactly doubled the length of one eighth note?

At some point I think we have to put the “it was a freak accident that was repeated with precision over and over, forever” argument to bed.

Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by IsTom on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:10AM (#36045412)
With n=1, for me there is a groove or three that are just muscle memory and I'd need a longer while to sit down and think if asked write them down. They came out from noodling around and coming to "huh, that sounds cool" and I imagine that's not something particularly uncommon for other people too.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by brookst on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:25AM (#36045668)
I think we lost the thread here. I wasn't suggesting Lars had millisecond-level intrinsic timing and an innovative approach to music theory. I was rejecting the idea that this beat came from incompetence. I think developing an interesting groove and being able to play it consistently in a song, and in live performances for years is evidence of drumming competence.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by Jolter on Monday May 29, 2023 @08:02AM (#36113108)
You don’t play music, do you? It’s absolutely possible to learn a rhythm, groove or melody wrong, and to rehearse it until it sounds so right, the anything else sounds wrong to you. But your audience would notice.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by colanderman on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:56AM (#36044350)
As a musician, I do not find this surprising at all. It's easy to internalize "incorrect" rhythms and pitches.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by LeonB on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:26AM (#36044811)
"practice makes permanent"
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by toolslive on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:40AM (#36054842)
That's why you want to practice _slooowly_ but perfectly before you speed up. That way mistakes can't take root.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by PeterisP on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:18AM (#36044695)
Did he do that consistently or is it just an artifact seen in a single very heavily edited record? Is the same timing seen in this section of live concert recordings during those years?
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by Jolter on Monday May 29, 2023 @06:26AM (#36112531)
I have not been a metal head for many years but my recollection is that the live albums and bootlegs have timing that varies all over the place. Especially on MoP and Battery, and a few other notable ones (The Four Horsemen) which have complicated rhythms.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by plorkyeran on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:54PM (#36047083)
Yes, that's how playing music works. Whatever you do on your first playthrough is what you'll do on every playthrough if you don't specifically try to change it. Consistently reproducing a mistake is generally much easier than unlearning the mistake.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by mort96 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:34AM (#36044902)
I really wouldn't be surprised if "5/8" wasn't even mentioned anywhere until long after that part of the song was thought up. It just sounds good.
Re:Microtiming in Metallica's “Master of Puppets” by spoonfeeder006 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:15PM (#36053283)
Integer subdivisions are kinda arbitrary too as well

Probably we limit ourselves a lot if we're too confined to those without being able to express our energy

But someone who is trained explicitly to play exact integer divisions will have trouble expressing their energy as much