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Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:04PM (#3597177)
Why shouldn't they be angry at jotform? It looks like they had no expedited process for reporting phishing forms which had to have been a known risk somewhere around #1 on their list of known risks, they actually made it easier to go upstream instead of searching for their contact page (only linked in the footer) and hoping someone replies today.

Did they have any automated detection? If they didn't have a "report a bad form" button then maybe they didn't even try and find bad forms ... like anything with a sign in button or password field. 2 million forms is too many to inspect, but you could narrow that list down very easily.

What happened to them sucks but it seems like the problem could probably have been avoided.

Edit: it let me make a form with "Account number" and "Password" complete with emailing me what people put in it which is suggestive of no preventative measures at all.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by nitrogen on Thursday February 16, 2012 @04:16AM (#3597959)
Edit: it let me make a form with "Account number" and "Password" complete with emailing me what people put in it which is suggestive of no preventative measures at all.

See this comment by the founder of Jotform: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3597821 (Relevant quote: "Our Bayesian phishing filter has suspended 65.000 accounts last year.")

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by AndyJPartridge on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:16PM (#3597207)
Some good points.

But surely they should have been sent a warning, even a 24 hour one, to remove some content before just being wiped off the Internet.

This action is business destroying and draconian.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:17PM (#3597212)
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree they shouldn't have been destroyed and that GoDaddy has no right to be the executioner.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by sukuriant on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:37PM (#3597262)
Then how do you rectify the statement you made that their customers should be angry with them, and that they shouldn't be destroyed? I really want to hear this.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:49PM (#3597293)
Because there are two things here:

1) GoDaddy overstepping their bounds and shutting down a website

2) JotForm having inadequate, perhaps even non-existant measures in place to prevent or respond to phishing

Obviously #1 dwarfs #2 significantly but that doesn't make #2 okay.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by sukuriant on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @11:15PM (#3597349)
How doesn't it? The argument could be made that GoDaddy would have done that deed anyway, even if (2) hadn't been rectified.

GoDaddy might not have, if those provisions had been in place. Do these sorts of stories with GoDaddy happen often?

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @11:18PM (#3597356)
GoDaddy's actions don't cancel it out because ignoring or not adequately preparing for phishing was wrong every single day and a foreseeable problem for about a decade now. They had a responsibility to prevent this for their paying users.

Maybe it wouldn't have saved them, but there are a lot of free-x-hosting companies out there that haven't been shut down in spite of abuse.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by sukuriant on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @11:26PM (#3597385)
Do you plan for every illegal thing that could happen on your website?

It's easy to not imagine what sort of evil your site could be used for when you're thinking of just the awesome problem you're trying to solve.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @11:34PM (#3597400)
This isn't really some unforeseeable edge case that nobody could have reasonably expected to happen - their site lets you build a form, embed it on a page, and they either email or save the form data for you. Not anticipating phishing would be fine if it was 10 years ago.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by drucken on Thursday February 16, 2012 @12:38AM (#3597511)
benologist please stop trying to make it sound as if there is any dependency between your 1 and 2.

How can anyone who has ever used the Internet or has even a basic understanding of the Domain Name System believe that it is a registrar's right or responsibility to take down a domain, especially without notice, and that does nothing to contravene the conditions of owning that domain name?

I wouldn't even say you are beating a dead horse with that dependency. It was never a horse to begin with!

The blame obviously lies squarely with the US federal agencies - you do not see this happen in other developed countries, for example (UK does not count since its a US colony in all but name).

In particular, to be able to shutdown or ruin the reputation of a business at the drop of a hat due to alleged breaking of the law - not even by the business itself - before it has even been processed by the justice system!

Just imagine if this had been a takedown of Google, Microsoft, Apple or Facebook site, all of which easily meet or have met the conditions for alleged infringements of US IP or other laws at some point, if for no other reason than hosting user-generated content...

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Thursday February 16, 2012 @12:56AM (#3597573)
You misread what I'm saying. Jotform users deserve to be angry about this situation which in the last decade has been successfully avoided by many free-x-hosting companies who actually prepared for obvious problems.

GoDaddy is, regardless, ridiculous.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by scott_s on Thursday February 16, 2012 @10:13AM (#3598979)
benologist please stop trying to make it sound as if there is any dependency between your 1 and 2.

He didn't. In fact, his point was that there is not a dependency between the points - which is what it means that even if 1 is worse than 2, 2 is still a serious problem.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by drusenko on Thursday February 16, 2012 @01:45AM (#3597688)
There's no evidence whatsoever that this was a US govt take-down. Everything we've seen so far indicate that it was GoDaddy's doing.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by rooshdi on Thursday February 16, 2012 @06:39AM (#3598212)
The U.S. Secret Service was involved.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by anigbrowl on Thursday February 16, 2012 @02:54AM (#3597804)
Welcome to risk management 101. Lesson 1: assume the worst of the general public, and you won't be disappointed.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by meow on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:20PM (#3597222)
Do you think this would have been averted if they took all the measures you are proposing ? There are no set guide lines here according to which the government is taking down stuff.. This is not DMCA related to create an process to take down stuff.. Even if they could not find the contact page, taking the whole website seems to be ridiculous thing to do.

I think things like this will make websites with user generated content to move away from .com domains and even move into countries where there is more due process to things like this.

Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:23PM (#3597231)
I think there's a decade of history that shows it could probably have been avoided - they're not the first free-x-hosting company to ever be abused for phishing.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by Zirro on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:32PM (#3597250)
The history of this matter stopped being relevant when domain-seizures stopped being the last option.
Re:Jotform domain seized by US due to user generated content by benologist on Wednesday February 15, 2012 @10:40PM (#3597267)
The same risk existed last year alongside the many exploitable-by-phishing flavors of hosting. Although this wasn't even a domain seizure, this is just an overzealous domain registar which has also, always, been a risk to web services.