There's a music teacher at NYU, Ethan Hein, that seems to be working on this exactly in the context of groove pedagogy. For example, he recently picked apart the amen break in a blog post [0] and tried to replicate it in ableton from scratch, methodically. He first lies out the basic pieces or the groove, then builds up the groove adding and removing elements, gradually complexifying it.

As someone who has trouble with drum patterns as well I really liked the idea.

[0] https://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2023/building-the-amen-break/

Look for the Ableton live realtime “reproducing prodigy’s fire starter in ableton”, it’s really a wonderful example. You’ll appreciate it.

Wow, thank you!

Might I suggest simply playing with a basic drumset in real life for a few hours? A kick snare and hihat are the principal components needed. I contend that you will organically discover a kind of conversational dialogue between the kick and snare that known beats are a result of. It’s something that will inform your drum programming immensely, even if you never pick up drum sticks again

This pings on something I've been wishing for locally: I would like there to be a music shop that has a short time studio rental (30min to an hour) where you can access a trap set (specifically for me) or other piece of gear, already setup with headphones and monitors, such that you could just go in an play for a while, without an investment. A place to just jam for a little bit and explore, able to be separated such that any awkwardness or shyness can be reduced. Maybe this is a common thing and I just don't know how to ask for it.

What would a reasonable fee/rate be like for such a thing? It's an interesting idea but I'm considering the economics of it.

I don't have the information to say. I would say that the kit doesn't have to be top of the line gear. The fee would need to cover wear and tear (and maybe a deposit or kicker if someone gets a little overzealous,) hourly rate of whomever is maintaining the setup, plus some margin.

What I'd be willing to pay is something on the order of up to $50 for a session. I think the sweet spot would be $30-$40 for something like 20 to 30 minutes.

There's probably rehearsal studios in the burbs with a minimal drum kit and minimal backline for $25/hour, in San Francisco i remember i being at least 3x that but really worth the money. Part of the experience is going into a dungeon like environment, inhaling huge amounts of smoke and wondering if you'll survive.

You can go into pretty well any music store and play the drums there for as long as you want. Even electronic ones with headphones on. I used to work in one, and there was a guy who would come in on his lunch hour everyday and just play. Honestly don't even know if he owned a drum kit at home.

In my head, which is based on decades old experience and the occasional stop by a music store, what I'd be wailing on is demo kit, out on the main floor. To me, that's different from getting a small, private soundproof-ish room where I can pop a few songs onto the headphones and hit it.

I don't want to be a drummer and I'm not interested in performing publicly. I just want to rock out and suck as hard as I can, without feeling the social awkwardness of being out in the middle of the store.

I guess I've never been to a music store that has the drums on the main floor. Nearly all the main sections are dedicated to guitars because that's what sells. I've even been to some where the drums are on a different floor. Personally, as a computer programmer, I've embraced social awkwardness as a core part of my being though, so being terrible at drums in front of bunch of people I don't know would be right up my alley haha.

thats a pretty good idea. I went to a university that had a music department and practice rooms. (Keep people from playing in the dorms). They were pretty soundproof rooms, and many had a piano. I used to walk around and sometimes duck into an empty room and play the pianos (not a music major..) I'm not great but it was a fun break from studying.

That's what I'm thinking. Just a small room, soundproof. Cost for entry covers upkeep plus some margin. Hook your phone into the monitor or headphones and go to town.

this is a really great idea. I never played a kit until after 15 years of involuntary music lessons as a kid, including a stint in high school percussion section. Just having high hat, snare and kick is like magic.

At least i hope it's magic for somebody, playing clarinet or pedal steel for me is magic, whereas playing my best instruments, piano, guitar, flute, not really magic.

For anyone who is interested in structured learning around the idea of listening and reproducing, I suggest Audible Genius Building Blocks[1].

[1] https://www.audiblegenius.com/buildingblocks

For what it’s worth there is a builtin feature(s) with Ableton where you can:

* Convert audio clip to MIDI drum track

* Convert audio clip to MIDI melody

* Convert audio clip to MIDI harmony

None of them work exceptionally well but they get they get enough done that they’re useful for a first pass approximation in many situations.

> Or you could just try to reproduce the beats of your favorite songs.

Depends! I went into hobbyist music production a few months ago probably bc I saw a cool midi controller that my kids might find interesting. Fast forward a few months and I've bought and sold a few $100s of gear and now I have these great immersive music making sessions with just a Korg Volca Beats and a MicroFreak.

I'll save you all hours of YouTube synth hype bois by stating that the MicroFreak is hands down the best way to learn synthesizers. It packs SO MUCH into a small, tactile form factor. The manual is actually a fun read and explains each and every parameter in an engaging way. It is a masterclass in approachable documentation for a complex subject, (and was probably translated from French, since Arturia is a French company).