Gas peaker plants are still required, yes. But they will need to run much less frequently than today.

so, sort of like perpetual motion?

* Smart meters that charge cars/turn on heat pump storage when electricity is plentiful. Already being done. German aluminum smelting (heavy electricity user) is dialed up and down depending on live electricity prices.

* Pumped storage. Coire glass will built soon in the UK - pumping out a max of 1.5GW, snowy 2 in Australia will store 350GWh - at the dirt cheap price of $6 billion. 90% efficient. Published studies confirm that, unlike for dams, the geography for this is very plentiful (contrary to nuclear lobby propaganda which routinely and dishonestly argues the exact opposite).

* Hydrogen/windgas - only about 50% efficient round trip but it's easy to store hundreds of GWhs for months, so will be useful to create seasonal storage when, one day (god willing) we get to the point where overbuilt wind and solar manages to supply 100% of current demand and large pumped storage/battery installations are full and we want seasonal storage for the unshiftable demand during the odd windless and dark weeks.

When is this nonsensical tribalism going to end? Where are all the non-tribal people who are evaluating this stuff on facts and information alone? Why do we hear from the self-disqualifying tribalists?

Rant over. You're right - if we all buy cars with giant lithium batteries in then we need to buy fewer non-car lithium batteries.

And yes, pumped storage exists, and more will exist, but we have to decide how many point-solutions we need to replace consistent generation.

> Hydrogen/windgas - only about 50% efficient round trip

Moving electricity (at least in the UK) is only 90% [0] efficient on transmission alone. So, getting the power to the generation, which then becomes hydrogen at 50% capacity, to later burn at a certain efficiency and turn into electricity that gets transmitted at 90% efficiency, feels wrong. Unless your "round trip" figure includes the transmission losses, but then 50% feels too high to be doing that.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/550583/electricity-losse...

Remember when global warming denial was mainstream?

Appeals to moderation were everywhere. The media would routinely play deniers with the scientific credentials of a ferret against actual scientists to maintain the appearance of balance and neutrality.

The appeal to moderation logical fallacy almost seems to be instinctive among some people. It was almost as bad as denialism sometimes.

I'm appealing to reason, as opposed to tribalism. You are citing the hurt of a tribe you have decided exists as a group to hurt, and justifying talking badly to other people who you imagine are in another tribe is, well, tribalism. Just stop and we can all have a useful discussion.

I'm saying stop thinking in terms of sides, and just present reasoned positions. Why is this so hard to grasp?

For me the jabs were about skewering repetitive propaganda from staggeringly wealthy lobby groups with deafening megaphones that emerges from the mouths of the easily duped.

I want to make sure that the easily duped felt seen.

So it'll probably be a while. FWIW, I'm on the intermittent renewables camp, wish there was more civility in the debate, recognize the worst behavior comes from my side of the aisle and still think pro-nuclear arguments are their own worst enemies.

Could you please link this research? I have yet to find a thorough evaluation of pumped hydro resource availability anywhere.

>We found about 616,000 potentially feasible PHES sites with storage potential of about 23 million Gigawatt-hours (GWh) by using geographic information system (GIS) analysis. This is about one hundred times greater than required to support a 100% global renewable electricity system.

Nuclear reactors can have problems, same with natural gas plants right? But no one suggests or has built a duplicate generation system. Why not?

If there are companies willing to sign a cheaper contract that provide equal stability of a nuclear power by using a combination of fossil free storage and renewables, they should then do that.

The requirements are fairly simple. Provide energy when people want it with the capacity that people require, and supply it as cheap as possible with as little subsidizes as needed. No fossil fuels allowed.